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Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

quantamagazine.org

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Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#31

Post by kritiko »

Hedepig wrote: post #28
zby wrote: post #27

I think we need to let go the paradigm that there is a 'good health' state and that we just need to avoid stuff that leads to deviation from that state. We keep discovering that a thing is correlated with one bad symptom - but the lack of said thing is correlated with a different bad symptom and we believe that there is one perfect level that thing that would let us live with neither of these bad things. There probab…

Perhaps slightly tangential - I listened to a set of lectures on genetics[0], one of the biggest takeaways for me was that although it's apparent diet is one of the largest[1] (I forget if it is the largest) factors in cancer rates, we aren't sure which foods in particular cause dramatic increases or decreases in cancer probability [0] - https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/understanding-geneti... [1] - we believe…

I thought we had some ideas - e.g. high sodium diets in east asia have been implicated in gastric cancers.

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#32

Post by kritiko »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #23
QasimK wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think someone is going to read that, start ignoring their doctors, throw all their medicine in the bin, and become some kind of natto evangelist? It’s a common Japanese food and he just said give it a go.

Do you really think someone is going to read that, start ignoring their doctors, throw all their medicine in the bin, and become some kind of natto evangelist? Most folks don't become an evangelist! The rest, though - yeah, it happens. People get sold sham cures and diets all the time and dismiss proven treatments. Even when folks do not dismiss modern medicine and are doing things that aren't actively harmful, alter…

I think what's funnier is that statins have become so cheap through generics, but they are demonized because of their purported side effects, so people are spending way more money for e.g. red rice yeast, which is just an unregulated statin.

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#33

Post by treeman79 »

epgui wrote: post #12
treeman79 wrote: post #6

Fun fact. Many autoimmune issues can be triggered / worsened by diet. There is an auto immune protocol diet that is all about reducing inflammation. Spend a few months on any of the support forms and you’ll see a pattern where people take years to be diagnosed. Most have a mystery illness for several years before it’s diagnosed. Then they go through years of various medication options with mixed results. Eventually m…

While it is true that diet can have a big impact on inflammation, I would caution against pushing this idea too far in the context of auto-immune diseases. I won't go into the details or talk about any specific condition because it's a complex topic, but you're better off combining a mediterranean / Indian / varied diet (the American diet is notoriously bad) with proper medication as prescribed by your treating physi…

There can be a 1-20 year timeframe between seeking treatment and getting a diagnosis and starting medication for autoimmune. Doctors constantly gas light people until it has progressed to late stages.

These are people that should 100% work on diet as a solution until they can get proper diagnosis and start treatment.

Instead I see the reverse. People scarfing on crap American diet. Trying drug after drug with mixed results. Some it’s enough. Others not. These are people that need to change their diet regardless of medication or not.

Then there are people like my sister who clearly has the same condition as everyone in family. Refuses to seek treatment. But got an early start on healthy eating and does better then anyone else. She really needs some tests, and probably does need some medication. But is mostly fine.

Something like cancer. Screw everything I just said and take the pills.

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#34

Post by treeman79 »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #24
epgui wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is true that diet can have a big impact on inflammation, I would caution against pushing this idea too far in the context of auto-immune diseases. I won't go into the details or talk about any specific condition because it's a complex topic, but you're better off combining a mediterranean / Indian / varied diet (the American diet is notoriously bad) with proper medication as prescribed by your treating physi…

So. Much. This. I have Multiple Sclerosis, and there are slews of sham diets out there. None, of course, have been actually proven effective even though one specific person definitely claims to have cured their MS through diet. It isn't even that I mind folks trying diets out - but the only thing (so far) that tends to lessen the disease over time are medicines. These medicines are expensive and tend to have side eff…

There is a good argument for “why not” with food.

Has the fewest side effects. Do an elimination diet. If it doesn’t help. Well you ate boring food for a month. That sucks.

If your symptoms ease up. Well then yea!

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#35

Post by jack_pp »

zby wrote: post #27

I think we need to let go the paradigm that there is a 'good health' state and that we just need to avoid stuff that leads to deviation from that state. We keep discovering that a thing is correlated with one bad symptom - but the lack of said thing is correlated with a different bad symptom and we believe that there is one perfect level that thing that would let us live with neither of these bad things. There probab…

> But now in the developed countries we live in an environment that is mostly cleaned from these obviously harmful things

I don't agree, sugar is still as popular as ever and age old marketing scams like fruit smoothies being healthy still dominate the health narrative.

People continue binging pizza and burgers and wash it down with soda even though they know it's obviously bad for them. Obesity is a big problem in the west

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#36

Post by axg11 »

zby wrote: post #27

I think we need to let go the paradigm that there is a 'good health' state and that we just need to avoid stuff that leads to deviation from that state. We keep discovering that a thing is correlated with one bad symptom - but the lack of said thing is correlated with a different bad symptom and we believe that there is one perfect level that thing that would let us live with neither of these bad things. There probab…

I suspect the mechanism driving this goes all the way down to basic biology. Everything is a spectrum. Take gene regulation networks or protein-protein interaction networks. They are both extremely complex and nonlinear. Perturbations to one gene can lead to positive or negative regulation of a cascade of other genes, as well as negative or positive feedback loops. For these networks, there are many such "steady" states where the combination of gene expression leads to a healthy cell/organism. Biological networks also have a high degree of redundancy with many proteins having overlapping function. There is no such thing as a universal healthy state because any single cell can be in a wide spectrum of states but still function "good enough".

I think the ultimate goal of medicine is to understand how each change in state, at the cell or organ level, changes state at the organism level. With that knowledge we can "tune" health in the right direction.

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#37

Post by JacobThreeThree »

zby wrote: post #27

I think we need to let go the paradigm that there is a 'good health' state and that we just need to avoid stuff that leads to deviation from that state. We keep discovering that a thing is correlated with one bad symptom - but the lack of said thing is correlated with a different bad symptom and we believe that there is one perfect level that thing that would let us live with neither of these bad things. There probab…

Ironically, the very modern technology that has assisted us, has itself become a leading cause of death: medical errors and false positives

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#38

Post by treeman79 »

urban_strike wrote: post #25
themodelplumber wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was on the AIP diet for a while, quite a long time ago. It wasn't the end-all solution for me that others proclaimed it was, but it was nice to have something new to try.

For what it's worth, I had a similar experience trying a strict AIP diet for a few months - some improvements in my autoimmune symptoms (some psorasis I've had since childhood), but nothing definitive. When I tried a strict carnviore diet, basically cutting out the vegetable and fruits allowed on AIP, my existing patches of psoriasis disappeared over a few weeks, and no new ones appeared. Since then I've gone on and…

I’ve heard this a few times.

I’ve tried all meat before and I get crazy weak. If I recall my pain level dropped a lot though. Maybe because not eating enough meat.

My wife gets crazy energetic, all her pain goes away and she’s way happier.

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#39

Post by user_7832 »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #24
epgui wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is true that diet can have a big impact on inflammation, I would caution against pushing this idea too far in the context of auto-immune diseases. I won't go into the details or talk about any specific condition because it's a complex topic, but you're better off combining a mediterranean / Indian / varied diet (the American diet is notoriously bad) with proper medication as prescribed by your treating physi…

So. Much. This. I have Multiple Sclerosis, and there are slews of sham diets out there. None, of course, have been actually proven effective even though one specific person definitely claims to have cured their MS through diet. It isn't even that I mind folks trying diets out - but the only thing (so far) that tends to lessen the disease over time are medicines. These medicines are expensive and tend to have side eff…

I would like to let you know (if you weren't already aware, if you are please ignore) of low dose naltrexone (LDN). While it's certainly not guaranteed to work, for some people it certainly does. I'd highly recommend reading more about it as while LDN is helpful for autoimmune conditions in general, MS particularly has a "higher" rate of success with it.

Practical info - please do your own research, don't take my word and speak with your doctor first. I'm just here to make you/anyone else with MS aware of it's existence.

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#40

Post by treeman79 »

user_7832 wrote: post #39
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So. Much. This. I have Multiple Sclerosis, and there are slews of sham diets out there. None, of course, have been actually proven effective even though one specific person definitely claims to have cured their MS through diet. It isn't even that I mind folks trying diets out - but the only thing (so far) that tends to lessen the disease over time are medicines. These medicines are expensive and tend to have side eff…

I would like to let you know (if you weren't already aware, if you are please ignore) of low dose naltrexone (LDN). While it's certainly not guaranteed to work, for some people it certainly does. I'd highly recommend reading more about it as while LDN is helpful for autoimmune conditions in general, MS particularly has a "higher" rate of success with it. Practical info - please do your own research, don't take my wor…

I started ldn 3 days ago. Spent 2 years trying to get a prescription. It’s all the rage on support forums.

None of my doctors had heard of it before, so refused to try it. Then found out I could just order online from a doctor.

So far very happy with it. Pain levels drastically lower. Energy levels in morning notably higher. Dreams are a bit intense. Supposed to even get better as time goes by.

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