Live data from Hacker News

IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

marco.org

171–180 of 207 posts

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#171
post #155
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unsaid thing about freedoms is you cannot exercise them unless you have the means to do so. If you don't have that, the only value freedoms afford you is aspirational. Given that the potential to do something is worth a whole lot less than the activity itself, it's easy to see why FOSS is in is current state and will remain that way for a long time.

Then you would drop freedom of speech just because it is useless unless you own CNN?

Nobody is suggesting that. In any case it's a false comparison, since anybody has the ability to fully exercise their freedom of speech. To exercise your open-source freedoms fully require skills, time, and/or money (to pay others to do it for you).

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#172
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This general problem is a symptom of a major issue regarding the use of software that does not respect the freedom of its users. Every non-apple developer and user is required to bend to the will of the programmers who develop the proprietary iOS. Any negative choices or limitations imposed by Apple Inc. are virtually uncircumventable. On the other hand, if users and developers in a community are free to view, modify…

> This general problem is a symptom of a major issue regarding the use of software that does not respect the freedom of its users. Developers are not users. I don't particularly want my mobile phone to respect the "freedom of its developers". I do want to be sure that no app I install at a whim hogs the disk down, installs spyware or f*ks the phone when I'm in need to make an important call. If I wanted "developer fr…

> He's only "required" [to do] so if he chooses to use iOS. And if he chooses to use iOS, it's because the platform attracted him, and one thing that attracts a lot of people to it it's the "it just works" and "you don't have to manage it".

That is entirely true, and yes that is part of the problem. The polished nature of a proprietary operating system is like a polished jail. It may be nice and roomy now, but what about in 5 or 10 years when everyone has an iPhone and Apple has one or no competitors? Can we stop them from shrinking our room if there is no free alternative?

> Except if you jailbreak

Actually, no. You can access the filesystem, but you can't install your own free (or proprietary) operating system on the iPhone because there isn't one.

Free software isn't all about nice looking features (though they tend to get developed in time), it's largely about creating a dynamic that ensures the freedom of the user, and that protects them from anti-features, both blatant and subtle. It may not sound like much on the surface, but it's an important issue, especially if someday someone in power says that they don't approve of what you do with your computing devices.

The user of a program is controlled by the program and the program is controlled by the programmer. Do you wish to be controlled by someone who won't show you what the program does, and doesn't allow others to make improvements? There _are_ alternatives, and they are not perfect. I don't expect everyone to be an early adopter of every free technology, but there are many, especially at HN, who would be able to use them and to help them grow to the point where most people would be able to use them quite easily. Developing free software is an act of generosity, because it is much needed in our world, where we are becoming so dependent upon computing technology.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#173
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu has put hard money into an alternative to Gnome3, yet they chose not to put effort into Gnome2 either. Which suggests that perhaps Gnome2 has been abandoned for good reasons, even if you don't agree with them. If you're not paying for their time (or willing to put your own time in), you don't get to chose how the people who are putting the effort in spend their programming time. With free software, you have th…

> With free software, you have the option to do whatever you like to it, but no-one has the obligation to work on it on your behalf. Absolutely and that's the problem. Say my wife (not a programmer) doesn't like it, she isn't going to learn to program, understand the code, make the changes she wants and implement them. While it's theoretically possible, it's so impractical as to effectively be impossible. The number…

Your wife and all non-programmers get a major benefit when they use free software. When your wife uses proprietary software, she can never have any level of confidence that the software does what it claims to do and nothing more. Microsoft or Apple can do anything they want behind her back, and the only chance she'll ever have of knowing about it is if some disgruntled employee decides to spill the beans and doesn't immediately get silenced by Microsoft or Apple's huge legal team.

But when she uses a program whose the source code can be examined by a worldwide community of programmers, her chances are greatly improved that if the code plays any dirty tricks someone will already have discovered the offending code, they will have screamed bloody murder, and the offending code will already have been removed. Even if she's unfortunate enough to have encountered the malicious code before it's been discovered, she can be confident that when it is discovered: 1) it will quickly be fixed, and 2) since it's in Microsoft's and Apple's interests to disparage F/OSS software, it will be prominently reported on the 11:00 news.

I'm certainly not claiming that there's any absolute guarantee that any software is safe. If you really want to be paranoid, read Ken Thompson's "Reflections on Trusting Trust" at http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.167....

But I am claiming that her chances of being harmed by having her data misused are far, far greater when she uses software that can only be examined by a very few programmers inside an organization that has a vested interest in hiding the misuse. She's much safer when she uses software that can be examined by a worldwide community of programmers whose vested interest is in achieving status within the programmer community by producing code they can be proud of.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I will have to write a blog post for us too. I wonder if there is any chance that Apple will change how this works - it seems like this should be doomsday for a large swath of apps. (married to Smokey and partner on all these apps!)

The bigger question is why wasn't this considered DURING the iOS5 beta? If it got brought to Apple's attention during the beta cycles and they decided to not fix it then they'll most likely won't fix it now either (although it seems like they really don't have much choice here but to provide a solution one way or another)

All the developers in the beta are under NDA, so they can't write attention-getting blog posts that might actually influence Apple to do something.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird. On my roommate's 3GS upgraded to iOS 5.0 (I've not upgraded mine yet as my 4S is arriving today), I did not see the screen shown in the screenshot linked in the post above in the Settings/iCloud section. There were toggles for all the Apple apps, but 3rd party apps seemed to only be able to be toggled all at once, with a toggle called "Applications and Documents" or something of the sort. How do you do it?

It is admittedly, on double-checking, a bit convoluted. Settings > iCloud > Storage and Backup > Manage Storage > [DEVICE] > Backup Options.

Indeed; it's strange they bury it that deeply. Thanks for rooting that out.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#176

I write several offline mapping apps, and this is totally throwing us for a loop. We're recommending our power users not upgrade to iOS 5. Users download gigabytes of maps to their cache directory, they don't want to eat their iCloud allotment with that, or their slow their iTunes sync. But they also don't want to have to download those maps again, or find themselves in the middle of the woods without the maps they d…

Is this correct: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3111234 ? Add .nosync to the file/foldername in Documents and it's not synced?

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#178
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this crosses the line regarding how much control Apple has over the device for which I paid!!!

This argument is way over used. It is 'your' choice to upgrade to iOS5. It isn't like Chrome where there are rolling updates that just get applied. You actually have to sit at your computer for a while, download the software and than install it. Many chances to turn back.

Lame argument. Microsoft offers you a "choice" of installing updates as well. What if they started deleting files put by other legitimate apps because it is slowing your computer or changing your wallpaper because its too ugly... where is the line???

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#179

Add .nosync to the file/folder name path and keep it in the home or documents directory. Problem solved. edit: I'm shocked this thread is so long and no body mentioned this. It's been on the apple developer forums for months as a solution.

Well that could use better publicity. Do you have a citation?

Has anyone used this successfully?

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#180

Add .nosync to the file/folder name path and keep it in the home or documents directory. Problem solved. edit: I'm shocked this thread is so long and no body mentioned this. It's been on the apple developer forums for months as a solution.

I haven't had a chance to verify this myself, but according to Marco, this does not actually avoid the iCloud sync:

https://twitter.com/#!/marcoarment/status/124587437799374848

Post reply on HN