Live data from Hacker News

IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

marco.org

161–170 of 207 posts

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, one thing I don't understand is Marco had access to dev builds of iOS for months and iCloud dev access I presume. Why he only found about it now instead of doing something about it all this time?

Probably because, like most developers, he has separate development devices that he only uses for development. So he probably never ran into storage constraint limits while just testing Instapaper. As an example, I have a 32GB iPod Touch that I've been using for all of the iOS5 testing for my applications and I'm only using around 600MB total. I'd never run into this issue either unless I loaded this up with tons of…

That's incorrect, he stated on his podcast that he's used iOS5 on his main device since WWDC.

Whether he hits the limit regularly or not is another question...

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#162
post #15

I'm sympathetic to Marco's blog post here, but I wonder if he's failing to interpret the two paragraphs from the documentation within the context of Instapaper's purpose. With respect to point #1, and in the context of what Instapaper is for, the user is intending to read an article offline, and the local copy of the article was generated by the user's intent (and can, therefore, be considered user-generated even tho…

But it doesn't make sense to back this data up to iCloud, which is what happens to the Documents folder.

I took the original suggestion as a practical solution to make the best of the current situation. It doesn't make sense to potentially have a redundant backup, but it makes for a better user experience than disappearing articles.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#163
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could be wrong, but I think all the articles are on Instapaper's servers, so you can re-download them.

But only if you are online, which defeats the object of "offline access".

Oh, I see what you mean now. I feel dumb :)

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#164
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This general problem is a symptom of a major issue regarding the use of software that does not respect the freedom of its users. Every non-apple developer and user is required to bend to the will of the programmers who develop the proprietary iOS. Any negative choices or limitations imposed by Apple Inc. are virtually uncircumventable. On the other hand, if users and developers in a community are free to view, modify…

> If we were talking about free software, users would have control of their data; not some distant programmers Example Gnome3, which is free software, even a officially sanctioned GNU project. Overnight, a few key people decide to abandon the traditional desktop metaphor, against the will of a majority of their users and to the detriment of the whole linux desktop. The users hated it and are still hating it, but nobo…

Yes, there is the inconvenience of people having different ideas of what makes an optimal program. However, in the case of Gnome3, the Gnome team has been developing fallback mode, which will be used in some GNU/Linux distros in their next releases. So there is still a good deal of original functionality still in place. (And yes there are still variants like XFCE, and other alternatives.)

However, the main point isn't whether we can get as much eye-candy as humanly possible. Free software operating systems may always be lacking some set of features that are present in proprietary systems. But the real issue is how many _anti-features_ there are. We know about Apple's decision on storage policies because it is blatant and they were up-front about it. But there is so much in a proprietary program that we can't easily monitor. It may sound paranoid, but there are likely backdoors, etc. in many of our cell phones, allowing paying governments to listen to converstaions, even when it's sitting in your pocket, or it looks like it's off but still has the battery in. http://www.neatorama.com/2011/05/29/gmail-hackers-used-us-go... Gmail and others are _known_ to have backdoors to user data for governments, for example. How comfortable are you with that?

And it's not limited to backdoors and spying. Apple once installed a hardware chip in one of their computers to remove certain features and sell it at a cheaper price. Removing the chip allowed users to use those features. While we usually don't have much control at the hardware level, I personally don't want to use an operating system that is defective by design http://www.defectivebydesign.org/ , with forced obsolescence just being one example of a dirty tactic that is often used. (Get the latest phone, the previous one isn't cool anymore and the new OS works like crap on your "old" hardware!)

If it weren't for Firefox, there would hardly be any web standards to speak of, and the internet would basically cater to Microsoft Windows' Internet Explorer. Microsoft resisted the development of the internet in its current form because it allows users of virtually any operating system to use the web to its fullest potential. I don't think Apple is very much above that kind of thinking. When there weren't many apps for the iPhone, Apple touted the idea of web-based apps, because it was an easy entry point, and there weren't many binary alternatives in the "ecosystem". Once there were lots of programs in Apple's (censored) store, they began discouraging the use of web-based applications and encouraged everyone to make programs compiled for the iPhone, largely because a user of any device can use a web-based app, but you have to buy an iPhone to use the any of the programs that have been written by programmers for that device. (No cross-compiling allowed by Apple, btw.)

So whether or not we like where development is heading with a given free software project, there is a sanity to the development process in that there are no anti-features that I can really think of. If any get made, then all it takes is _one_ programmer to say, "I don't like that idea, I'll just delete that code and share the change with others, because it suits me, and because I can."

edit: spelling

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#165
post #145

Apple - iCloud - Your content. On all your devices. That is the title of Apple's main iCloud page at http://www.apple.com/icloud/ . iCloud is seamlessly integrated into your apps, so you can access your content on all your devices. This is Apple's definition for the iCloud service. It doesn't matter what the data is, it's your data and Apple is promising to sync it between your devices, to preserve your experience. I…

"If Apple penalizes developers and undermines the promise it is making to users because it decides to be miserly about bandwidth, then it has to admit it launched iCloud before it was ready."

That's the key right there. The size of the Instapaper database is determined by the user. It will only fill up a user's iCloud space if they decide to save a lot of documents. Plus, they always have the option to buy additional space!

Aside from making sure the documents are reasonably compressed, the size of the Instapaper database should not be Marco's concern.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#166
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This general problem is a symptom of a major issue regarding the use of software that does not respect the freedom of its users. Every non-apple developer and user is required to bend to the will of the programmers who develop the proprietary iOS. Any negative choices or limitations imposed by Apple Inc. are virtually uncircumventable. On the other hand, if users and developers in a community are free to view, modify…

Every non-apple developer and user is required to bend to the will of the programmers who develop the proprietary iOS. How about this: Every non-developer user is required to bend to the will of the programmers who develop the OS. Now tell me, how many of Android users a capable of modifying the OS, and how many of those are willing to.

Android is not a free operating system, but originally claimed to be one. http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/09/19/1756241/RMS-Is-Androi...

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#168
post #145

Apple - iCloud - Your content. On all your devices. That is the title of Apple's main iCloud page at http://www.apple.com/icloud/ . iCloud is seamlessly integrated into your apps, so you can access your content on all your devices. This is Apple's definition for the iCloud service. It doesn't matter what the data is, it's your data and Apple is promising to sync it between your devices, to preserve your experience. I…

Their marketing is definitely hyperbolic. Even in terms of Apple's own services. The supposed data syncing in iWork actually doesn't work on the Mac versions. It only works between iOS devices. So if I edit a paper on my Mac, and I want to use it on my iPad, I still have to go through an annoying uploading/downloading phase. There's nothing seamless about it.

If you go to the bottom of http://www.apple.com/icloud/features/documents.html you can see the web interface you have to use.

I know this is a tangent to the OP but I was very annoyed to discover this last night, I feel like Apple was pretty misleading here. There are clearly technical difficulties that still need to be surmounted.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#169
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or Apple can provide a persistent store that isn't uploaded into the iCloud.

I think this crosses the line regarding how much control Apple has over the device for which I paid!!!

This argument is way over used. It is 'your' choice to upgrade to iOS5.

It isn't like Chrome where there are rolling updates that just get applied. You actually have to sit at your computer for a while, download the software and than install it. Many chances to turn back.

Re: IOS 5's "Cleaning" Behavior

#170
I think the problem is that Marco sees Instapaper users as his customers. I sympathize with this, but I think iOS is an assertion by Apple that App Store customers are Apple customers. App Store Developers are providing a service to Apple's customers. But everything that happens must point back to Apple's servers, not their own.

In the same way Apple doesn't want every developer operating their own independent payment system, they also don't want developers operating their own cloud storage services. If Apple holds the data they can guarantee its security. They likely see these problems as temporary, until developers and customers learn to adjust to the fact that iOS data is controlled by the iCloud service.

Post reply on HN