Live data from Hacker News

A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

npr.org

371–380 of 552 posts

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Would you send your 5 year old self down the streets of San Francisco or Seattle?" Yes. We live in San Francisco, and our kids went to a daycare in the Civic Center. We walked [with the kids] by many homeless people every weekday for years. Our interactions with them were almost universally positive; they'd clear the sidewalk to let kids through, try to keep kids from seeing drug use, chat and share candy, etc. On c…

> cities are safer than they've ever been Seattle has seen a large rise in violent crime, and it's hottest around the homeless camps. The fire dept responds to fires in those camps daily.

While there has been a rise in violent crime in the last few years, which is bad, Seattle is still less violent than it was historically. Right now, we're at approximately 2006 levels of violent crime:

https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/us/wa/seattle/crime-rate-...

so while its not good, its vastly oess apocalyptic than folks seem to portray.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

based on rough calculation, your 40k city has a murder rate of 3.5 per 100,000; Tokyo has a murder rate of 0.26 per 100,000. In Miyazaki prefecture, the most violent in Japan according to [1], the murder rate is 0.9 per 100,000 [1] https://nbakki.hatenablog.com/entry/Murder_Rate_Number_of_Ac...

That 3.5 is almost without exception crime-related. Your odds of being a victim of extreme violence even if you weren't involved in what started it are effectively zero. Miyazaki prefecture probably experiences this same phenomenon. If even that is too much for you to risk, there's a city a couple of hours away with a population of 100k and a murder rate of 0.00. We haven't even mentioned the Japanese tendency to onl…

You argue that most murders are criminals killing each other. Suppose you're right. So let's look at robberies instead. Those are primarily directed towards random people not towards other criminals.

The safest US city in that respect is Irvine with ~20 per 100k (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...). Irvine is indeed a very safe city, and I doubt parents would be concerned too much with letting their kids walk to school (if only the school was within a walking distance away).

Tokyo reported 224 robberies for 14m residents (https://knowledge.insight-lab.co.jp/tableau/opendata-crime-t...), or ~1.6 per 100k. So 10 times less than Irvine, the place that everyone considers to be basically completely safe.

Now move out of Irvine. Pick a city. San Francisco is ~360, NYC is ~160, Seattle is ~210. Even Mountain View, near Apple, Google, and many other high tech companies is ~60.

And btw, people in Tokyo generally do very little protect themselves from violent crime, since it's so rare. They walk around late, alone, often drunk, paying no attention to their surroundings. I'm pretty sure if people behaved like that in SF, the robbery rate would jump significantly.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#373

Absolutely need to plug Not Just Bikes, a youtube channel done by a Canadian living in The Netherlands about urban planning using Dutch infrastructure as the gold standard. Key points he makes are how bad North American environments are for child freedom. Its almost entirely due to NA urban planning prioritizing cars over everything else, making it just dangerous for anyone to try and walk anywhere, let alone childre…

> Dutch infrastructure as the gold standard

I don't think it's really a "gold standard"; it's more that everything else is so unbelievably atrocious that it looks like a "gold standard", but it's still incredibly car-dominated. I watched the video and it's not wrong: it's extremely common for children to cycle to elementary school on their own and it's mostly safe, but it doesn't really "prioritize pedestrians, bikes, transit, then cars, in that order"; cars are still very central in most traffic.

Things are very slowly beginning to change, in some areas, sometimes. But it's very slow progress.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds to me like you're purposely downplaying the dangers of overwhelmingly mentally-ill, drug-addicted, societal outcasts just so you can post about how enlightened you are. Normal people do not want to put their kids into dangerous situations. And doing so does not make you a good person.

You're afraid of a parent choosing to walk with their kid down a public sidewalk? Get a grip.

Walking with the kids? Not a problem.

But the thought of letting my kids (5 and 2.5) run errands by themselves (in a city like Berlin with its abundant number of homeless and mentally-ill people everywhere) gave me goosebumps.

"It's only one block away" and "most homeless people are harmless" would never be words of consolation in case of any calamity.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#375

Not in the US they can't. "officials placed two brothers into foster care after one, 11, was found playing basketball alone in his own yard." He'd gotten home early from school and his parents came 90 minutes later. He was in his own yard. The family lost their children to foster care. Ironically in foster care ACTUAL abuse rates are pretty darn high! "When Cindy and Fred arrived home they were arrested for child neg…

I have a strong suspicion that "Cindy and Fred" are in fact minorities and this is just plain vanilla southern racism at play. This is the state terrorizing minority communities to remind them who is in charge. That's usually what is going on when you see gross miscarriages of justice like this in the south.

southern racism in maryland?

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not feel safe letting my kids walk on roads in their current state.

I assume you mean they don't know enough yet? You can improve their state so that crossing the street is quite safe. What do they need to know to avoid being a pedestrian fatality? Here are the top three things.[0] 1. Don't walk under the influence. 2. Don't walk at night. 3. Only cross at an intersection. [0]: https://www.ghsa.org/resources/news-releases/GHSA/Ped-Spotli... .

That's not particularly relevant to this discussion because walking under the influence is not a major contributor when children are hit or killed by drivers.

Children also have different risk factors, for example many trucks and SUV drivers have poor visibility and cannot see sufficiently short road users that are close to the front of the vehicle, for example when stopped at a stop sign or traffic light.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A major difference between when I grew up and now is the prevalence of the severely mentally ill living on city streets. Would you send your 5 year old self down the streets of San Francisco or Seattle? As a 45 year old I’m frightened often enough - I can’t imagine my daughter being forced to navigate those situations alone. The assault and murder rates due to the untreated mentally ill in the cities I’ve lived in is…

"Would you send your 5 year old self down the streets of San Francisco or Seattle?" Yes. We live in San Francisco, and our kids went to a daycare in the Civic Center. We walked [with the kids] by many homeless people every weekday for years. Our interactions with them were almost universally positive; they'd clear the sidewalk to let kids through, try to keep kids from seeing drug use, chat and share candy, etc. On c…

No post body was provided.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A major difference between when I grew up and now is the prevalence of the severely mentally ill living on city streets. Would you send your 5 year old self down the streets of San Francisco or Seattle? As a 45 year old I’m frightened often enough - I can’t imagine my daughter being forced to navigate those situations alone. The assault and murder rates due to the untreated mentally ill in the cities I’ve lived in is…

"Would you send your 5 year old self down the streets of San Francisco or Seattle?" Yes. We live in San Francisco, and our kids went to a daycare in the Civic Center. We walked [with the kids] by many homeless people every weekday for years. Our interactions with them were almost universally positive; they'd clear the sidewalk to let kids through, try to keep kids from seeing drug use, chat and share candy, etc. On c…

OK, since some folks have commented on the candy thing:

That was a one-time event, on the Muni, with both parents there, and with the giver asking our permission to give our son a sealed lollypop. I don't recommend kids take candy from strangers without parents there, but I do talk to strangers in front of my kids, and encourage them to also.

I don't tell my kids that all strangers are dangerous. First, because it leads to a culture of fear and disrespect. Second, because I obviously don't act as if they are, so it would lead to distrusting my advice.

They have to learn the difference between "stranger who seems reasonable and nonthreatening with whom you can casually chat" and "stranger telling at clouds whom you should avoid". They figure that out pretty young, if you let them.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#379
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends on what part of the 1900s... I grew up (also in the 70s&80s) as a "latchkey" in an area that was built in the 50s and 60s and had the same experience of walking and riding to school. This seems like a "reality TV" phenomena of the last 25 years. Certainly, there are suburban deserts that are completely unwalkable, but most housing is not like that (certainly not "affordable" housing) simply because…

Does the remark about immigrants make sense? The typical immigrant can't be more concerned about fitting in that the typical native. Because the typical native's behavior determines what "fitting in" means.

It makes perfect sense.

An immigrant trying to fit in will try to confirm to the average.

An individual native who doesn't care will not care about the average.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a 3rd world country (now I live in Europe) in a city that by HN comments seems similar to SF (big and full of harmless homeless people/drug addicts everywhere). I remember when I was a kid and I was with my mother I stared to a homeless man for some time. Of course he just seemed peculiar to me, I was a little kid, but this guy got mad and screamed "Do I owe you money or what? why do you keep looking at…

If you stare at anyone long enough they will get mad. I don't recommend this experiment.

I've never observed a person getting mad at a child for staring at them. In my experience people seem to smile, wave, or make funny faces.

(A teenager or adult is different, but the story above was a kid small enough for their mother to grab them in her arms.)

Post reply on HN