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A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

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Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#211

Post by welder »

uranium wrote: post #116
fnordpiglet wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A major difference between when I grew up and now is the prevalence of the severely mentally ill living on city streets. Would you send your 5 year old self down the streets of San Francisco or Seattle? As a 45 year old I’m frightened often enough - I can’t imagine my daughter being forced to navigate those situations alone. The assault and murder rates due to the untreated mentally ill in the cities I’ve lived in is…

"Would you send your 5 year old self down the streets of San Francisco or Seattle?" Yes. We live in San Francisco, and our kids went to a daycare in the Civic Center. We walked [with the kids] by many homeless people every weekday for years. Our interactions with them were almost universally positive; they'd clear the sidewalk to let kids through, try to keep kids from seeing drug use, chat and share candy, etc. On c…

> but that doesn't make them dangerous.

Sometimes it does. I like not needing a car in SF too, but I do notice my kids being affected negatively after seeing a violent deranged person. I bike the long way to school instead of walking because it was impacting their mood so much. Maybe your kids deal with it better than mine, or maybe you're just not noticing how it's affecting them?

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#212

Post by civilized »

I have two young kids and I'm very sympathetic to the philosophy of free range parenting. But jeez, when it comes to actually letting my 6-year old walk to the grocery store alone? It's... really scary... just being honest here. Maybe I can get over that? I don't know.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#213

Post by jimt1234 »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #51
beej71 wrote: post #47

I don't have any kids, so I don't really feel comfortable telling folks how to raise theirs. But I will tell you my perspective. As someone who grew up in the "be back home in time for supper" 1970s, today's world seems completely foreign. When I started kindergarten, Mom walked me to school on the first day so that I'd know the route. And after that I walked to school on my own until I learned to ride a bike. I rode…

A major difference between when I grew up and now is the prevalence of the severely mentally ill living on city streets. Would you send your 5 year old self down the streets of San Francisco or Seattle? As a 45 year old I’m frightened often enough - I can’t imagine my daughter being forced to navigate those situations alone. The assault and murder rates due to the untreated mentally ill in the cities I’ve lived in is…

Please accept my apologies in advance. I don't mean to sound crass. But, after the incident at your daughter's school, she's still alive, right? Are you suddenly worried she's scarred for life and gonna grow up to be a meth-head? Like I said, sorry to be insensitive, but as a fellow Gen-Xer, it kinda disappointments me that we've adopted this attitude that kids should be protected from, well, *everything*. We all saw shit as kids, and we all lived through it.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#214

Post by malkia »

brabel wrote: post #142
malkia wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Bulgaria, but my experience as a kid (80s-90s) seems like similar to what my (future) boss (in Los Angeles) when he was growing up in SF Valley (60s-70s) - get on the bike, go places, school, etc. We had much smaller amount of cars. For one we had these self-made wood carts with ball-bearings as "tires", and we would slide with them on the streets while other cars were driving. Ok, not on the main street…

> For one we had these self-made wood carts with ball-bearings as "tires", and we would slide with them on the streets while other cars were driving. HA, I thought that was only in my country we had those :D. In Brazil it's called "carrinho de rolemã"!

Awesome!!! It's "lagerna kolichka" (lager=ballbearing, kolichka=car/cart) - https://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%B5%D1%... ("лагерна количка") search to show them :)

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#215

Post by livinginfear »

uranium wrote: post #116
fnordpiglet wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A major difference between when I grew up and now is the prevalence of the severely mentally ill living on city streets. Would you send your 5 year old self down the streets of San Francisco or Seattle? As a 45 year old I’m frightened often enough - I can’t imagine my daughter being forced to navigate those situations alone. The assault and murder rates due to the untreated mentally ill in the cities I’ve lived in is…

"Would you send your 5 year old self down the streets of San Francisco or Seattle?" Yes. We live in San Francisco, and our kids went to a daycare in the Civic Center. We walked [with the kids] by many homeless people every weekday for years. Our interactions with them were almost universally positive; they'd clear the sidewalk to let kids through, try to keep kids from seeing drug use, chat and share candy, etc. On c…

Sesame Street clearly had a big influence on you.

Would you walk on Kensington Ave with your children? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi1Kf-1qd6Y

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#216

Post by malkia »

Cipater wrote: post #129
malkia wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Bulgaria, but my experience as a kid (80s-90s) seems like similar to what my (future) boss (in Los Angeles) when he was growing up in SF Valley (60s-70s) - get on the bike, go places, school, etc. We had much smaller amount of cars. For one we had these self-made wood carts with ball-bearings as "tires", and we would slide with them on the streets while other cars were driving. Ok, not on the main street…

You have a tracker on your 15 year old son? Isn't that extreme?

We all agreed to have it on. It's helpful if he's with friends, and I need to pick him up, I don't need to call him. Or the opposite.

He can turn it off anytime too.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#217

Post by sealaska »

newfriend wrote: post #203
uranium wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Would you send your 5 year old self down the streets of San Francisco or Seattle?" Yes. We live in San Francisco, and our kids went to a daycare in the Civic Center. We walked [with the kids] by many homeless people every weekday for years. Our interactions with them were almost universally positive; they'd clear the sidewalk to let kids through, try to keep kids from seeing drug use, chat and share candy, etc. On c…

It sounds to me like you're purposely downplaying the dangers of overwhelmingly mentally-ill, drug-addicted, societal outcasts just so you can post about how enlightened you are. Normal people do not want to put their kids into dangerous situations. And doing so does not make you a good person.

It sounds to me like you're purposely upplaying the dangers of people who live outside, many of whom have substance abuse issues.

I'll refrain from guessing how enlightened you are.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#218

Post by underwater »

jandrese wrote: post #181
robonerd wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I realize big government is here to protect us Created by people who mean well perhaps, but subsequently captured by another sort. > Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the enginee…

Isn't that just "management" vs. "production staff"? You can't do both, each are full time jobs.

No. As a manager I embrace process that aids my team in achieving our goals, and eschew process that hinders it. For me the process is a means to an end.

I meet lots of bureaucrats who literally only care that the processes they oversee are carried out. For them the process is the goal.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#219

Post by maestroia »

I grew up on a farm in the US Midwest. When I was 4 (early 1970s), I was given my chores of watering livestock. I also started bottle feeding my first orphan lambs, and started getting other orphans from neighbors. It became quite an income stream.

When I was 5, I started driving an older tractor. When I was 6, we were fixing a pasture fence when my dad told me to go drive the pickup the 50 yards or so to where we were at. He verbally walked me through it, and let me go get it. I remember that moment like it was yesterday.

And that was not a unique experience, for farm kids at least.

Now, parents would be criminally charged with something.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#220

Post by tpoacher »

beej71 wrote: post #47

I don't have any kids, so I don't really feel comfortable telling folks how to raise theirs. But I will tell you my perspective. As someone who grew up in the "be back home in time for supper" 1970s, today's world seems completely foreign. When I started kindergarten, Mom walked me to school on the first day so that I'd know the route. And after that I walked to school on my own until I learned to ride a bike. I rode…

When I was a kid, people would leave the engine running on the car with the keys on, while they popped in the convenience store to buy a quick item.

We used to leave the doors and windows wide open at home while taking a nap, to "air the house".

Different times.

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