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U.S. forgives 40k student loans

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#401

Post by rootusrootus »

pyronik19 wrote: post #277
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course a spoon makes a crappy can opener if you try and use it for that job. Institutions get designed around their mandate. If you're trying to run a school system you wouldn't invent a court. If you were trying to deal with violations of law you wouldn't create a school board. The federal government's mandate was to manage issues that arise between states and each other, between states and other countries and to…

The problem is that you can't ram down income redistribution schemes in places like New York without watching all the income earners move to another state. No rational person is going to subject themselves to being robbed like that, they will leave (like I did with NYC). The key is to do it at a national level so you can shove it down everyones throats concurrently and give them no way to escape your shitty systems.…

I always assume that people who make blanket statements like this imagine they're actually providing real value, and that they're one of the few doing so.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#402

Post by rootusrootus »

timssopomo wrote: post #312
tejohnso wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious to know how these loans became such a political issue. It's unusual to take out a loan and then complain about having to repay it. That's how it is supposed to work. We don't typically reward people for digging themselves into a hole by bailing them out. Unless they're large corporations. We bail them out in certain cases. But I don't think that's a popular idea either.

We do, actually, at least in the US. It's called bankruptcy. We generally recognize that sometimes despite best intentions, debts become unpayable and in these cases, the debts get restructured and creditors are frequently wiped out (which is fair, since both borrower and lender take risks). Student loans can't be discharged through bankruptcy unless the borrower is permanently disabled. It's entirely possible to end…

> It's called bankruptcy.

Then why is the discussion around a debt jubilee rather than reforming the bankruptcy rules for student loans?

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#403

Post by rootusrootus »

peterangular wrote: post #342
tejohnso wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious to know how these loans became such a political issue. It's unusual to take out a loan and then complain about having to repay it. That's how it is supposed to work. We don't typically reward people for digging themselves into a hole by bailing them out. Unless they're large corporations. We bail them out in certain cases. But I don't think that's a popular idea either.

100% in good faith: > I'm curious to know how these loans became such a political issue. It's unusual to take out a loan and then complain about having to repay it. Saddling _teenagers_ with such debt is problematic in many ways. For many of my peers they were not ready/cut out for college but still had the debt + schooling jammed down their throats because "it's what you're suppose to do." Then, there's the cost to…

> Saddling _teenagers_ with such debt is problematic in many ways.

So perhaps the solution involves some combination of 1) raising the age at which someone is considered an adult until it does not end with "teen", and 2) not giving loans to people with no plausible way to repay it, and/or 3) requiring a cosigner who is both older and better funded.

Maybe we take away blanket guarantees for student loans, make them dischargeable in bankruptcy, make the interest rate and borrowing limit based on plausible future income, things like that.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#404

Post by cwp »

wskinner wrote: post #261
cwp wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that many US universities are private. So when the government puts money into loans and grants for students, the universities just raise tuition, rather than expanding to accept more students. In the end it's just a transfer from the public to university administrators. To really expand access to education we'd have to have many more public universities. And anyway, the problem with education isn't tha…

> The problem is that many US universities are private. This is false. The cost of tuition at public universities has grown faster over the last 20 years than at private universities, for both in-state and out-of-state students. The average tuition and fees at private National Universities have jumped 144%. Out-of-state tuition and fees at public National Universities have risen 171%. In-state tuition and fees at pub…

I stand corrected. Clearly being private is not a factor if public universities are leeching off the public even more. That amounts to corruption in university governance.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#405

Post by rootusrootus »

godelski wrote: post #337
tejohnso wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious to know how these loans became such a political issue. It's unusual to take out a loan and then complain about having to repay it. That's how it is supposed to work. We don't typically reward people for digging themselves into a hole by bailing them out. Unless they're large corporations. We bail them out in certain cases. But I don't think that's a popular idea either.

So first off, remember that the people taking out the loans are typically between 17 and 20. I don't know about you, but when I was 18 I was a fucking idiot. I mean I still am, but more so back then. I would be surprised if you weren't (and you probably aren't even the median case!). Also consider that a lot can happen in 4 years, especially at that age. Your interests typically rapidly change, you learn more about w…

The age argument is an interesting one. Should we be redefining what the age of majority is? Because if 18 year olds aren't competent enough to make borrowing choices for college, it follows that there are plenty of other consequences they shouldn't face.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#407

Post by rootusrootus »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #377
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side rant (though somewhat similar to colpabar's reply): The Democrats tried to govern like they had a large majority, when they had 5 (I think) seats in the House, and a 50/50 Senate. Of course it failed! If you need every single vote, you can only go as far as the least-willing member will let you go. The Democrats never should have tried to govern that way. They should have been coalition building, trying to find…

> The Democrats never should have tried to govern that way. They should have been coalition building, trying to find some common ground where they could do some things. > So why did they take the approach they took? The Republicans set that precedent (trying to govern like they had a large majority). I don't mean that as a "the other side does it too", just that each side has become increasingly vindictive of the oth…

> each side has become increasingly vindictive of the other

For a number of reasons, no doubt. But partly I blame the efforts to remove pork from legislation. We thought that was a good idea, without realizing that it was the basis of compromise. When each little piece of legislation comes through on its own, there is no incentive to compromise, but just play tribal politics instead.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#408

Post by rootusrootus »

InitialBP wrote: post #94
throwaway894345 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also reimburse the people who sacrificed to pay theirs off or avoid them in the first place. I’d donate my reimbursement if they did, but of course they won’t.

Demanding "even-stevens" all the time doesn't help the situation at all. The people that were able to pay off their loan debt were people who chose a degree that would be able to make significant money, were talented enough to land a great job in a field without a lot, or had the circumstances that let them finish a degree where others were unable to. Do some people make bad decisions about degree choice? - Yes Do so…

> You can help out people who made a bad decision or had bad luck

Yes. Make loans dischargeable in bankruptcy. I support that. Or make repayment based on income, which is already is, so the burden is bearable. But just forgiving bad decisions? That's not a precedent I think we need to set, especially not until we do something to fix the underlying problem. Otherwise the next bailout will be 10x as big.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#409

Post by rootusrootus »

krageon wrote: post #192
leach wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s all fine and dandy until you realize the people who where smart and careful have to foot the bill for those who weren’t. I was smart and sacrificed a little by going to community college so I wouldn’t have debt. I was also smart enough to get a degree in stem where jobs are actually available and in demand. Why should I have to foot the bill for someone who just partied and got a useless degree? I did everythi…

> until you realize the people who where smart and careful have to foot the bill for those who weren’t. > Why should I have to foot the bill for someone who just partied and got a useless degree? Because you're a human being and recognise that while here you made no mistakes and had no bad luck, perhaps someone could have done that or had that. It's called decency, and you have it not because it benefits you. You hav…

I have had plenty of bad luck, and made plenty of stupid decisions. Some of them financial. Nobody bailed them out. I'd be in a better place today if someone had. That's for sure. But do I think that makes for sound macroeconomic policy? No.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#410

Post by ffggvv »

musicale wrote: post #64
qntty wrote: post #3

> At least 40,000 borrowers will receive immediate debt cancellation under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) Program. How is this news?

It used to be that for PSLF you had to make 120 sequential "on-time" payments and if your loan provider claimed (correctly or incorrectly) that one of them was late then the clock would reset, making it next to impossible for anyone to claim the benefit. A 10-year clock that can be reset at any time by the bank isn't good. I believe they fixed it (possibly temporarily) so that the clock no longer resets. This is a pa…

is it really next to impossible to pay on time? i assume you can dispute if they claim late incorrectly
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