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U.S. forgives 40k student loans

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#271

Post by lotsofpulp »

nr2x wrote: post #62
_moof wrote: post #27

Please, please, please take note before commenting: These are being forgiven under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, created in 2007 (fifteen years ago), which eliminates your remaining debt after you've made ten years of payments while working in the public sector (government or non-profit). This has nothing to do with current debates around loan forgiveness.

Exactly, this is pure PR the headline should be “Government Fulfills Terms of Loans it Failed to Meet”

Alternative could also be “government obfuscates prices for education and certain types of labor by offering nebulous benefit, the cost of which can be subject to much manipulation for purposes of presenting it as a low cost benefit”.

It would be straight forward to simply pay for higher education expenses directly, with much less bureaucracy and more transparent pricing, allowing for better allocation of society’s resources. But, as always, that would reduce the avenues for corruption, and so the politically viable option is the circuitous option.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#272

Post by colechristensen »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #182
hunterb123 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So since it's only 8% it's fine? How many 8% increments can there be until we're allowed to be against this? I'm against any percentage of funneling taxpayer money to college administrators. Reduce tuition, don't rubber stamp federal loans while letting administrators increase costs.

Student debt is massive, yes, but why are so few people asking where that money actually went? A cursory search says student loan debt is roughly $1.6 trillion dollars and there are around 4,000 to 6,000 colleges/universities. This is a rough number and the actual amount depends on your criteria, but the gist is that you have a ton of money flowing into a relatively small pool. Yes, I know not every dollar of loans g…

University administrative costs have blown up with all of the easy to acquire loan money.

Just a few highly paid and many mildly paid bureaucrats doing things which don’t need to be done… or in some cases doing very little at all (I’ve heard stories)

Also lots of fundraising and shiny new buildings which are more advertisements than useful expansions.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#273

Post by newfriend »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #26

I know every European seems to ask this of every American but what is the resistance to a welfare state? if you look at a government as investing in its citizens like a VC fund, then providing education and medical care is sensible, and some will turn out fine and others will be Bezos and then you can get your investment back via tax. I am honestly trying to avoid the flame war here - but I do it know how else to fra…

Why does every European who wants to be successful move to the US? Why is almost every innovative and successful company from the US?

Providing free stuff to layabouts isn't a recipe for success. These "investments" will never pay off. The way to incentivize economic success is via competition.

Unfortunately the US is already far down the path of handouts and participation trophies, and has nurtured an utterly entitled generation who think everything should be handed to them.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#274

Post by whymauri »

vmception wrote: post #191
moralestapia wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh ... You are a teacher and have two kids, A and B. Kid A is the ideal student, never gets in trouble, always send assignments in time and comes out really well in all tests. Kid B is the complete opposite and is basically a mess (for whatever reason). At the end of the school year you decide to give both students the same grade. You (could) justify it by saying that this measure is going to motivate Kid B to beha…

You have to work for the government or a non-profit for this program. What you're imagining is not what this article is about.

Not only that, but they worked in government or non-profit (under a specific definition of both of these) long-term while making 120 non delinquent loan payments (10 years) only if the loan is a specific type of loan. These people are by government definition not a 'mess.'

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#275

Post by oldgregg »

cato_the_elder wrote: post #256
_moof wrote: post #27

Please, please, please take note before commenting: These are being forgiven under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, created in 2007 (fifteen years ago), which eliminates your remaining debt after you've made ten years of payments while working in the public sector (government or non-profit). This has nothing to do with current debates around loan forgiveness.

> Public Service Loan Forgiveness program Come work for the permanent undemocratic bureaucracy, and you'll even your student loans forgiven. But if you decide to go down the path of becoming a kulak, the student loans will be with you even if you go bankrupt. I'm curious where the sudden bump to 40k comes from. According to Wikipedia [1]: > The Department of Education reported that 2,215 borrowers had the remainder o…

FAANG has plenty of private XKeyscore wrong-think APIs that the bureaucracy utilizes under the auspices of "fraud prevention" to filter out "bad thinkers" from various activities. Welcome to fascism, folks.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#276

Post by moralestapia »

jaclaz wrote: post #251
moralestapia wrote: post #130

I could imagine there's a lot of people who: 1. Are paying/had paid their mortgage properly. Usually implies being down to earth and choosing a home you can actually afford. 2. Paid their student loans. 3. File and pay their taxes properly. 4. Have never went unemployed, or better yet, they're self-employed. 5. Never played stock market bets, as they're more conservative and prefer to save money in a predictable way…

Essentially this is Aesop's fable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ant_and_the_Grasshopper

Yup, only at the end the Animal Council decides that the ant has enough food for itself and should give its surplus to the grasshopper.

The winter goes by, spring comes and the grasshopper starts dancing again ...

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#277

Post by pyronik19 »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #201
nebula8804 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am starting to think this is a sign of a big weakness in the American system. These half baked actions are evident in health care, security, and all other categories. I think it has to do with the fact that there are so many parties acting in bad faith that it is hard to get comprehensive legislation that addresses the problem as a whole vs just piecemeal bits and pieces because that is all that can be pushed throu…

Of course a spoon makes a crappy can opener if you try and use it for that job. Institutions get designed around their mandate. If you're trying to run a school system you wouldn't invent a court. If you were trying to deal with violations of law you wouldn't create a school board. The federal government's mandate was to manage issues that arise between states and each other, between states and other countries and to…

The problem is that you can't ram down income redistribution schemes in places like New York without watching all the income earners move to another state. No rational person is going to subject themselves to being robbed like that, they will leave (like I did with NYC). The key is to do it at a national level so you can shove it down everyones throats concurrently and give them no way to escape your shitty systems. Then you can appeal to your larger base of voters who are benefiting from stealing from a smaller number of people who are providing all of the resources, or a least until the government runs out of other peoples money to use as bribes.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#278

Post by omegaworks »

dudul wrote: post #252
happytoexplain wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This attitude, as stated , is one of the fundamental evils, I think (the implication being "If I can't have it, nobody can", or, in this case, "If I didn't get it when it was relevant to me, nobody can"). In this case, the core grievance is valid ("I think there's a better way to address the problem"), but this expression of it makes the problem into the super common "us vs them" where "them" is defined by the terrib…

The way you present the problem is inaccurate to me. It's not "I can't have it so nobody can" or "I couldn't have it back then, so nobody should have it now.". It is: "At the time, these were the rules, I ran the numbers, was responsible and ended up limiting my opportunities. Others, who were not responsible, now not only have more opportunities thanks to their degree but will also end up not paying for it". I'm sor…

So you would rather your children continue to suffer the burden of a system that forces people into limited opportunities simply because you had to?

So much for making the world a better place. The course that you took in life failed to teach you a fundamental truth about how a society grows.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#279

Post by rockinghigh »

loourr wrote: post #12

It's crazy to cancel student loans and still keep issuing the exact same loans. If we believe the loans are unjust then the government should stop handing them out as the very first step.

This program is for people working in the public sector. It's not known at the time of issuing the loan whether the student will quality for loan forgiveness.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#280

Post by dudul »

moralestapia wrote: post #276
jaclaz wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Essentially this is Aesop's fable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ant_and_the_Grasshopper

Yup, only at the end the Animal Council decides that the ant has enough food for itself and should give its surplus to the grasshopper. The winter goes by, spring comes and the grasshopper starts dancing again ...

And next year, the ant decides to also spend her time dancing around and partying, and when winter comes everybody is f-ed.
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