251–260 of 483 posts
I could imagine there's a lot of people who: 1. Are paying/had paid their mortgage properly. Usually implies being down to earth and choosing a home you can actually afford. 2. Paid their student loans. 3. File and pay their taxes properly. 4. Have never went unemployed, or better yet, they're self-employed. 5. Never played stock market bets, as they're more conservative and prefer to save money in a predictable way…
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People in the US are always punished for being financially responsible.
This attitude, as stated , is one of the fundamental evils, I think (the implication being "If I can't have it, nobody can", or, in this case, "If I didn't get it when it was relevant to me, nobody can"). In this case, the core grievance is valid ("I think there's a better way to address the problem"), but this expression of it makes the problem into the super common "us vs them" where "them" is defined by the terrib…
It is: "At the time, these were the rules, I ran the numbers, was responsible and ended up limiting my opportunities. Others, who were not responsible, now not only have more opportunities thanks to their degree but will also end up not paying for it".
I'm sorry, but to me it feels extremely unfair that people who frivolously took loans will now end up being ahead of people who - at the same time - decided to be more financially responsible. You can't retroactively change the rules and expect people to take it quietly.
The problem is made even worse because in the case of student loans, there is nothing to repossess.
This has nothing to do with changing the rules now.
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Exactly. Plug the hole first (or concurrently), and then worry about bailing water. Additionally, as others have mentioned, it needs to be done in such a way that we aren't punishing those who have been responsible and made sacrifices to pay off their loans. I'm not opposed to student loan forgiveness, but I don't think it's nearly as popular as many progressives would like to believe as a standalone proposal. Come u…
I am starting to think this is a sign of a big weakness in the American system. These half baked actions are evident in health care, security, and all other categories. I think it has to do with the fact that there are so many parties acting in bad faith that it is hard to get comprehensive legislation that addresses the problem as a whole vs just piecemeal bits and pieces because that is all that can be pushed throu…
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School should just be free in the US, as it is in other civilized countries.
And make the already mostly worthless degrees even more worthless?
High school is free, for example, and it's not worthless.
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This is the answer. Lenders would then have to do proper qualification on borrowers, would be more limited in their lending, and this would put downward pressure on tuition.
So unsecured personal loans? Those depend on your credit which most students don't have much/any and your debt-to-income which is normally infinite for students because they don't work. You would massively screw over kids whose parents cannot pay/co-sign a normal loan as it would force them to work and study. Also, you normally cannot get very much with such low income and cherry on top, they have awful interest rate…
Please, please, please take note before commenting: These are being forgiven under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, created in 2007 (fifteen years ago), which eliminates your remaining debt after you've made ten years of payments while working in the public sector (government or non-profit). This has nothing to do with current debates around loan forgiveness.
Come work for the permanent undemocratic bureaucracy, and you'll even your student loans forgiven. But if you decide to go down the path of becoming a kulak, the student loans will be with you even if you go bankrupt.
I'm curious where the sudden bump to 40k comes from. According to Wikipedia [1]:
> The Department of Education reported that 2,215 borrowers had the remainder of their respective student loans forgiven under the program as of April 30, 2020. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Servic
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The cost of higher education in the US is a joke. Universities are tax exempt, and highly profitable. Many have endowments over $1 billion [1]. Yet, the average cost in state is $10,000 per year, and almost $30,000 if out of state. For comparison, the tuition at Oxford College, one of the most prestigious institutions in the world, is $12,000 per year. Student loans may be considered even predatory [2], adding to the…
I always found the following expression amusing: "Universities are actually hedge funds that happen to have a school attached to them".
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I am starting to think this is a sign of a big weakness in the American system. These half baked actions are evident in health care, security, and all other categories. I think it has to do with the fact that there are so many parties acting in bad faith that it is hard to get comprehensive legislation that addresses the problem as a whole vs just piecemeal bits and pieces because that is all that can be pushed throu…
Of course a spoon makes a crappy can opener if you try and use it for that job. Institutions get designed around their mandate. If you're trying to run a school system you wouldn't invent a court. If you were trying to deal with violations of law you wouldn't create a school board. The federal government's mandate was to manage issues that arise between states and each other, between states and other countries and to…
“Simple, clear purpose and principles give rise to complex and intelligent behavior. Complex rules and regulations give rise to simple and stupid behavior.”
– Dee Hock
The hubris of creating complex rules to outsmart a problem leads to the creation of yet more complex rules to solve its own shortcomings.
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People in the US are always punished for being financially responsible.
People who have paid their student loan debt are in exactly the same situation they were after this forgiveness than they were before: that is, they have no student loan debt. People in the US are not punished for being financially responsible. They are rewarded for taking risks, but not punished for being responsible. Very different.
But Person A, who paid their $30k loan in full, now has $30k less to spend on a home, a car, savings, etc. Person B, who did not pay their $30k, now has effectively $30k more in buying power either immediately or spread across what would otherwise have been their repayment timeline.
Person A's responsibility for their obligation has set them back $30k, while Person B's lack of responsibility for making payments has put them ahead $30k. Maybe we shouldn't call it a direct punishment, but they're certainly coming out of the scenario worse off than their counterpart.