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Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

kenyarmosh.com

51–60 of 76 posts

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#51

>MYTH # 2: The office promotes connections I just find this bit entirely unconvincing. I don't have data to back up my claim, but IME 1 in-person interaction is worth ~5-10 'virtual coffee' type interactions via Donut or one of the similar apps. Maybe others feel differently, but I haven't found any substitute for live, in-person get togethers for connecting with colleagues on a personal level.

personally I find 1x1s over Zoom extremely fatiguing. No app will ever help with that, ever. I'd even take an in-person 1x1 in a drab conference room over Zoom.

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#52
post #8

Anecdata: I’ve noticed that the voices in an organisation who are more keen for a return to the office tend to be the managers, directors, leadership sort of roles. I wonder if being in the office is just simply more enjoyable for those with power and influence, while individual contributors (trying to get their work done) find they like it more at home?

well leadership are, naturally, very people-heavy jobs, so it's much more likely that they would be more inclined to work together in person.

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#53
post #25
post #8

Anecdata: I’ve noticed that the voices in an organisation who are more keen for a return to the office tend to be the managers, directors, leadership sort of roles. I wonder if being in the office is just simply more enjoyable for those with power and influence, while individual contributors (trying to get their work done) find they like it more at home?

The thing is, you have to produce results when you are remote. In an office, you can get by looking busy. I think the people who insist on going back to the office are the ones who are missing the stage on which they used to perform without actually doing real work.

in functional orgs, looking busy will catch up to you eventually, remote or otherwise.

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NOOOOOOO… you HAVE to be a cog in the machine and not enjoy your own life because… because… NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO lol

GP made a really good point and perhaps you also had something interesting to share from your experience. However, the snark distracts from the discussion and adds noise to GPs comment thread. I mean this without sarcasm, the 'Guidelines' at the bottom of the page and in particular the 'In Comments' section are really on point and worthwhile to read.

I have read the guidelines. Could you tell me where it says “don’t make jokes”? The guidelines aren’t rules, they’re guidelines. Otherwise they would be called rules. You can’t break a guideline, to wit.

I think you’re really overestimating how much my comment either adds or detracts from the conversation.

But I can say it in a clearer way: I do not care one single iota about the investment companies have made in leasing buildings whatsoever. I do not care to be babysat at work and I leave places that choose such paths. I look down on people who want to have that either as an occupation or a career. I will be laughing the entire time the physical workplace burns because it’s comical.

Have you ever read Candide by Voltaire?

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#55
post #8

Anecdata: I’ve noticed that the voices in an organisation who are more keen for a return to the office tend to be the managers, directors, leadership sort of roles. I wonder if being in the office is just simply more enjoyable for those with power and influence, while individual contributors (trying to get their work done) find they like it more at home?

I'm an IC and I'm way more productive in the office without the distractions of home. Also it's a lot easier to peek over to see if someone's busy or not before hitting them on chat to see if they're busy for a quick informal discussion. It's less of an event when you walk by the person every day.

Finding a way to reduce distractions is easier at work: it's a lot easier to change jobs than to change families :-)

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#56
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue the same things that make remote successful (good communication, documentation, processes) are things that would benefit an onsite company just as much. I am interested in what you strong in-office culture, like, what does that mean? What things didn't translate to remote?

Well, as just one example, communication patterns have to drastically change. Ours is a very open access office culture. If someone wants to come and ask me a question they are encouraged to do so because we strongly believe in open information sharing, quick decision making, and a high level of autonomy. The result is I cannot count the number of times colleagues have taken advantage of the fact that they could just…

I don't think they have to change though. As long as there is transparency and an "open door", those same folks can ask questions in open channels on slack or elsewhere. I really don't understand why the can't pop by virtually...

The benefit of this is folks who would otherwise be left in the dark also get the benefits of seeing whatever answers are given (and recorded!), and reciprocate in realizing that there is a no culture of fear around questions or consulting others for advice / help.

You dismiss communications tools, but it's more about who is using them than the tools themselves in my opinion.

I work at an all remote org and we have definitely believe in open information sharing, quick decision making, and a high level of autonomy. And folks definitely take advantage of being able to pop by (huddle in slack, etc.), inform others of decisions, or raise concerns virtually.

On the flip side, I've worked in an org that was "move fast, open door, etc." but onsite and folks were constantly accidentally out of the loop because decisions would be made face to face but not propagated to the rest of the company (oops, sorry Jim, we forgot you were in the other office or god forbid on vacation). That's what I mean when I say these remote practices (ask in the open, having processes, effective communication) actually help onsite companies as well, and I feel most onsite companies simply ignore them for adhoc face to face lossy communication.

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#57
My team meets in-person every other week for most of a work day. I have lunch with other colleagues on a semi-regular basis. I have long-going conversations on teams with several colleagues. Nobody in my circle of contacts which consists of roughly 200 people want to return to the office full-time - and I work at a Fortune 200 company with a big office tower downtown. They're fully onboard with this working model after seeing the productivity numbers.

Maybe part of the difference is my company has dozens of field offices scattered across multiple states, so they're already used to a lot of their employees essentially being remote.

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#58
post #57

My team meets in-person every other week for most of a work day. I have lunch with other colleagues on a semi-regular basis. I have long-going conversations on teams with several colleagues. Nobody in my circle of contacts which consists of roughly 200 people want to return to the office full-time - and I work at a Fortune 200 company with a big office tower downtown. They're fully onboard with this working model aft…

I should also point out we're using remote work as a means to hire also. We're hiring people from all over the country and allowing them to stay put. Some have chosen to move here so they can have some in-person time every now and then, others have decided to remain where they are. We've been doing this successfully for over two years now.

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#59
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as just one example, communication patterns have to drastically change. Ours is a very open access office culture. If someone wants to come and ask me a question they are encouraged to do so because we strongly believe in open information sharing, quick decision making, and a high level of autonomy. The result is I cannot count the number of times colleagues have taken advantage of the fact that they could just…

I don't think they have to change though. As long as there is transparency and an "open door", those same folks can ask questions in open channels on slack or elsewhere. I really don't understand why the can't pop by virtually... The benefit of this is folks who would otherwise be left in the dark also get the benefits of seeing whatever answers are given (and recorded!), and reciprocate in realizing that there is a…

> You dismiss communications tools, but it's more about who is using them than the tools themselves in my opinion.

And in my opinion those virtual tools are inferior in many ways to face to face communication (and superior in other ways, as you point out), and those pros and cons matter and are genuinely impactful regarding how people should communicate and collaborate in a remote setting vs an in-person setting.

All that being said, getting back to the original claim:

I think those are the same companies that aren't willing to put in the work required to build strong collaborative cultures _onsite_.

Looking at my reply I realize it wasn't sufficiently responsive to the statement.

I think I have a deeper claim, which is that in a face-to-face office setting, culture is more likely to evolve on its own accidentally because human beings are inherently social creatures, and incidental interactions in an in-person setting result in a culture developing.

In a remote setting, those incidental interactions are far less likely to happen. That means the development of culture, and social connections within the organization in general, are less likely to occur organically. Instead, you have to rely on much more deliberate culture building.

So I think I agree with the statement that "companies with a strong practice of building and developing a work culture in an in-office setting will have an easier time transitioning to remote work, because they have practices in place to be intentional about work culture development and reinforcement".

I don't agree with the inverse statement (as posited by the person I responded to) that "companies that don't have a practice of building a strong culture in a remote setting will not have a strong culture in an in-person setting" because I think office culture is more likely to grow organically in a face-to-face setting where incidental interactions with people are more likely to occur.

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#60
post #51

>MYTH # 2: The office promotes connections I just find this bit entirely unconvincing. I don't have data to back up my claim, but IME 1 in-person interaction is worth ~5-10 'virtual coffee' type interactions via Donut or one of the similar apps. Maybe others feel differently, but I haven't found any substitute for live, in-person get togethers for connecting with colleagues on a personal level.

personally I find 1x1s over Zoom extremely fatiguing. No app will ever help with that, ever. I'd even take an in-person 1x1 in a drab conference room over Zoom.

It's way less fatiguing for me since I switch off my cam or at least the display of my own video image. You should give it a try. :)
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