Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

kenyarmosh.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 76 posts

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#11

Post by postingposts »

jobs_throwaway wrote: post #3

>MYTH # 2: The office promotes connections I just find this bit entirely unconvincing. I don't have data to back up my claim, but IME 1 in-person interaction is worth ~5-10 'virtual coffee' type interactions via Donut or one of the similar apps. Maybe others feel differently, but I haven't found any substitute for live, in-person get togethers for connecting with colleagues on a personal level.

On the other side of that: I am forced to go to work so that I don’t die basically. I don’t use it as a social occasion and in general all of the tedious people who either can’t make friends or have an enjoyable life on their own time, get in the way.

Workplaces that try to use Work and Pay as a reason to have a social outing aren’t workplaces. I’ll fake it to be paid but if remote means it goes away… that is a very very good thing.

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#13

Post by p0wn »

colinmhayes wrote: post #5

> Go look at Buffer, Zapier, Automattic, GitLab, and more, who are Remote First companies with thriving cultures. I really don't think pointing to a couple companies that are remote and have decent culture invalidates the point that offices foster collaboration and culture sharing. No, it's not impossible to do those things in a remote environment, but it is absolutely much harder. It's not that hard to understand so…

Why is it much harder? I disagree. In office I usually only ever talk to people I directly work with. And, as an engineer, not very often. Every time I'd go in an office I'd just be sitting in front of a computer. If they had lunches then we'd all chat but it was all just bullshitting. I don't see how remote makes it harder to collaborate or 'culture share'. Culture sharing seems something woke people like to do a bit too much these days anyways. Rather stay home and keep my opinions to myself.

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#14

Post by diob »

colinmhayes wrote: post #5

> Go look at Buffer, Zapier, Automattic, GitLab, and more, who are Remote First companies with thriving cultures. I really don't think pointing to a couple companies that are remote and have decent culture invalidates the point that offices foster collaboration and culture sharing. No, it's not impossible to do those things in a remote environment, but it is absolutely much harder. It's not that hard to understand so…

Ironically I think those are the same companies that aren't willing to put in the work required to build strong collaborative cultures _onsite_.

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#15

Post by postingposts »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #7

I actually don’t care whether I’m more productive at home or in the office. I’m positive I’m more productive in the office but I won’t return either way. It makes no difference to me . My life is not about my employer extracting 100% of my productivity from me. I have a better quality of life working from home and I’m going to keep it.

NOOOOOOO… you HAVE to be a cog in the machine and not enjoy your own life because… because… NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO lol

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#16

Post by beardedetim »

wgx wrote: post #8

Anecdata: I’ve noticed that the voices in an organisation who are more keen for a return to the office tend to be the managers, directors, leadership sort of roles. I wonder if being in the office is just simply more enjoyable for those with power and influence, while individual contributors (trying to get their work done) find they like it more at home?

My experience matches yours and I've always thought it was due to trust. Leadership doesn't trust their team and have no idea if they're being productive or not. So they use "at desk not talking with head down" as a proxy.

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#17

Post by KerrAvon »

jobs_throwaway wrote: post #3

>MYTH # 2: The office promotes connections I just find this bit entirely unconvincing. I don't have data to back up my claim, but IME 1 in-person interaction is worth ~5-10 'virtual coffee' type interactions via Donut or one of the similar apps. Maybe others feel differently, but I haven't found any substitute for live, in-person get togethers for connecting with colleagues on a personal level.

"Maybe others feel differently." Come on. How can anyone who grew up during or after the BBS era could have this attitude? You can obviously have deep online interactions with people. We've been doing it for decades. You have to be open to it. It is a different type of interaction.

edited to add: People have also fallen in love online for decades. I know several people who met their spouses online.

What evidence would convince you that you don't need to discuss Johnny Carson's monologue at the watercoolor to interact with colleagues in a meaningful way?

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#18

Post by postingposts »

p0wn wrote: post #13
colinmhayes wrote: post #5

> Go look at Buffer, Zapier, Automattic, GitLab, and more, who are Remote First companies with thriving cultures. I really don't think pointing to a couple companies that are remote and have decent culture invalidates the point that offices foster collaboration and culture sharing. No, it's not impossible to do those things in a remote environment, but it is absolutely much harder. It's not that hard to understand so…

Why is it much harder? I disagree. In office I usually only ever talk to people I directly work with. And, as an engineer, not very often. Every time I'd go in an office I'd just be sitting in front of a computer. If they had lunches then we'd all chat but it was all just bullshitting. I don't see how remote makes it harder to collaborate or 'culture share'. Culture sharing seems something woke people like to do a bi…

Because it filters out the people who do all of category B (bullshitting, talking, having meetings) who normally spend their time taking away from category A (I am paid to do a task which I will do, and then be paid)

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#19

Post by drewcoo »

colinmhayes wrote: post #5

> Go look at Buffer, Zapier, Automattic, GitLab, and more, who are Remote First companies with thriving cultures. I really don't think pointing to a couple companies that are remote and have decent culture invalidates the point that offices foster collaboration and culture sharing. No, it's not impossible to do those things in a remote environment, but it is absolutely much harder. It's not that hard to understand so…

If the claim is a universal then just one exception disproves it.

Re: Big Myths Employers Are Using to Force “Return to Office”

#20

Post by snarf21 »

I really wish this debate would move to be more about preference rather than right/wrong. Everyone works better in certain situations. We aren't robots. There are enough companies giving everyone a choice that everyone should just be happy and stop dunking on everyone else.
Post reply on HN