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Canadians consider certain religions damaging to society: survey

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Re: Canadians consider certain religions damaging to society: survey

#101

Post by Brian_K_White »

Pasorrijer wrote: post #2

As a Canadian who spends a considerable amount of time travelling to the US, the difference is fairly striking. Religion enters almost every conversation I have in the US in some way. Whereas in Canada, religion almost never comes up. If it does, it's generally a discussion on the merits where I'm talking more about history and culture. It's fascinating how two places, so geographically close can be so culturally dif…

It has to be somehow ultimately the result of one of our main origin stories about the first settlers arriving here to escape religious persecution.

That image of poor harmless persecuted victims huddling in their homes with no candles lit so that no one knows they are having a prayer meeting or else they'll be killed for the crime of praying is taught to everyone in gradeschool, in the public, government run, non-elective schools to everyone, and so freedom of religion ends up getting way over-reaction enshrined.

Like freedom of religion is itself a religion in the sense that you mindlessly quote the scripture but don't actually think about what it means or do what it says, but do bend it to serve whatever want.

And the tendency of the more intellectual to forgive and tolerate stupidity in the name of freedom and freedom of speech just amplifies that.

Re: Canadians consider certain religions damaging to society: survey

#102

Post by gaganyaan »

powerslacker wrote: post #71
nitrogen wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we have far similar values with each other than with atheists. I would describe the values of the altruistic modern atheism of people I know, which has a lot in common with Christianity and Judaism at the big picture level, as "be good, do good." One needn't believe in God or gods to believe in good.

Values concerning sexual purity, obscenity, drug use, the transcendence of the almighty God, the material and immaterial parts of mankind, and the complementary roles of men and women are inherent in Biblical teaching. Some of these can be present among atheists, and they may be regarded as good. The difference is these values (and more) are present and regarded as good in varying degrees in every Abrahamic religion.…

Positing the existence of a deity doesn't get you anywhere. Why is it moral to do what that deity says to? Absolute morality does not exist.

Now, you can quite easily construct a practical morality system: I think murder is bad because I don't want to be murdered. I want stealing outlawed because I don't want things stolen from me. It's really that simple.

This is natural behavior that has proven evolutionarily advantageous for our species, but religion strangely came along after the fact and tried to take credit for it.

Re: Canadians consider certain religions damaging to society: survey

#103

Post by neonate »

goldenkey wrote: post #52
belfalas wrote: post #32

Meanwhile the Buddhists are unattached about being left out of the survey. They don't mind.

Buddhism isn't a religion insomuch as it is a philosphy.

Reading Mahasi Sayadaw on the hell realms cured me of that idea.

Re: Canadians consider certain religions damaging to society: survey

#104

Post by smt88 »

rmatt2000 wrote: post #10
jleyank wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, that's true in both the positive and negative sense, as atheists have no $GOD to kill for.

Mao and Stalin might disagree.

Mao and Stalin didn't kill for religious reasons.

Re: Canadians consider certain religions damaging to society: survey

#105

Post by JetAlone »

forum_ghost wrote: post #95
nautilius wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state ? Buildings and bureaucrats? Now that's a low bar for 'god'. That's it? There isn't more to it? That's what all the fuzz is about?

why are you so insecure about your atheism?

I wouldn't immediately assume it's insecurity. I used to be an atheist for a good decade and a bit. I remember making fun of Christians in high school. You get to be edgy and the Christians start to feel real bad because you're making fun of what is their "silly sky daddy" to you. But the extra fun part is they're conditioned to be nice in response so it's like you get to sit on a tall branch and drop things on their head and you don't have to take so much flak from them. And if they do act out, you can call them a hypocrite and insult their faith because it clearly doesn't work. It feels like a fun game you can't lose, until one day things get too real and you discover in horror what you'd been doing.

Re: Canadians consider certain religions damaging to society: survey

#106

Post by akvadrako »

uulu wrote: post #42
jleyank wrote: post #28

Please consider belief in $GOD as different from $RELIGION. Consider one the theory and the other the implementation, and the latter seems to cause way more difficulties, particularly with respect to the hardware.

> Please consider belief in $GOD as ... Hmm ... isn't God a value, not a variable?

God is an global constant of undefinable type.

Re: Canadians consider certain religions damaging to society: survey

#107

Post by sofixa »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #101
Pasorrijer wrote: post #2

As a Canadian who spends a considerable amount of time travelling to the US, the difference is fairly striking. Religion enters almost every conversation I have in the US in some way. Whereas in Canada, religion almost never comes up. If it does, it's generally a discussion on the merits where I'm talking more about history and culture. It's fascinating how two places, so geographically close can be so culturally dif…

It has to be somehow ultimately the result of one of our main origin stories about the first settlers arriving here to escape religious persecution. That image of poor harmless persecuted victims huddling in their homes with no candles lit so that no one knows they are having a prayer meeting or else they'll be killed for the crime of praying is taught to everyone in gradeschool, in the public, government run, non-el…

And don't the same schools make you pledge some words including a deity daily?

Re: Canadians consider certain religions damaging to society: survey

#108

Post by sofixa »

goldenkey wrote: post #52
belfalas wrote: post #32

Meanwhile the Buddhists are unattached about being left out of the survey. They don't mind.

Buddhism isn't a religion insomuch as it is a philosphy.

That's what i thought too, before visiting a majority Buddhist country and i was shocked at the lavish temples, the amount of temples, full sized and miniature versions everywhere, the amount of clerics, the indoctrination of children ( they start the journey to be a monk at a very young age, iirc 8), how much it seemed to matter to the locals ( stuff like people stopping to pray at a mini-temple before a journey, buses being lavishly decorated with religious symbols, etc), including their donations "for good luck" while the country was on the verge of bankruptcy and going through an economic decline. Funnily, in a majority Christian city in the same country everything was the same, just directed at a different diety.

Re: Canadians consider certain religions damaging to society: survey

#109

Post by thatswrong0 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #49
ketzo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean -- you've been in three of the most religious states in the U.S., and you're interacting w blue collar workers. There is a fairly tremendous sampling bias. But I agree that very religious Americans do manage to work their religion into conversations in which you just wouldn't think it would come up.

>you've been in three of the most religious states in the U.S., and you're interacting w blue collar workers. you're saying that like they went to Arrakis and interacted with the Fremen lol. Blue collar red state workers are what a lot of the US looks like. Two thirds of Americans do not have a university degree.

All I'm gleaning here is that trying to generalize the experiences and preferences of 400+ million people between the U.S. and Canada isn't a particularly useful exercise. Beyond what country / state / county you're in, I have to imagine that age, race, socioeconomic status, general social preferences, and probably a whole other slew of factors play a significant role in how often people experience religion being thrust upon them in.

Not to say that this is necessarily a useless conversation, but it feels odd to me considering many dang people there are.

Re: Canadians consider certain religions damaging to society: survey

#110

Post by olsonjeffery »

Barrin92 wrote: post #49
ketzo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean -- you've been in three of the most religious states in the U.S., and you're interacting w blue collar workers. There is a fairly tremendous sampling bias. But I agree that very religious Americans do manage to work their religion into conversations in which you just wouldn't think it would come up.

>you've been in three of the most religious states in the U.S., and you're interacting w blue collar workers. you're saying that like they went to Arrakis and interacted with the Fremen lol. Blue collar red state workers are what a lot of the US looks like. Two thirds of Americans do not have a university degree.

Your inclusion of “without a university degree” is doing a LOT of work in that sentence to make it seem like rural (and let’s admit it: white) evangelicals are anything close to a majoritarian bloc in the United States.
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