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The Uber Bubble

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371–380 of 556 posts

Re: The Uber Bubble

#371

Uber as a business is a massive loss, but consumers still _chose_ Uber over taxis because the process of getting and riding in a car is a million times more transparent than a taxi ever was. You can see what car and what driver are picking you up, what route they're going to take, and how much it will cost. Taxis failed because they failed to modernize.

Here in India a common problem with Uber is that drivers will first ask you about your destination and then decide if it is worth their effort to pick you up from your current location and then drop you at the destination. For most parts this leads to a situation where you have to book 5 or 6 rides till you get a driver who is willing to pick you up. And there are tons of places where no driver will pick or drop you. I am from New Delhi, but I have seen the same issue in most Indian cities with uber or ola service.

Drivers will not cancel a ride and expect you to take a hit in terms of cancellation charges. Now if you have a lot of time, you can wait for the 10-15 or so minutes it takes for uber to cancel your ride and then restart the process. I have spent upto 1 hour to not get a ride on many occasions and this was for a ride to a location where uber drivers will not object to normally and for a pick up location that is also within the areas blessed by uber drivers.

In addition to this, there is a growing list of scams specific to uber and its local competitor ola. e.g. a driver will come near you, start a trip and then drive around w/o you for a while and end the trip. Or the driver will ask you to cancel the ride and pay the money in cash. In some cases the driver will only take a trip if you are paying in cash, as that directly goes into their wallets. Uber and Ola have put in a system where they ask you to enter a OTP for some of the rides, which fixes some of the scams.

Here uber has to use a registered commercial vehicle driven by a driver with a commercial driving license, so there is no concept of someone driving an uber part time. When they started, they subsidized rides heavily and encouraged drivers to buy cars on loans. Now uber has withdrawn all the subsidies and most drivers are stuck with a car and a loan that they

In many cities, uber also gives you a service where traditional metered auto rikshaws (they are metered like taxis, but cheaper 3 wheeler vehicles similar to tuk tuks). These typically seem to work better as you get the auto rikshaw at the regular metered price w/o having to deal with auto rikshaw drivers who would want extra fees over the meter if you hailed them using traditional methods.

For my airport transfers, I have defaulted to the local taxi service that had served me well before uber and which continues to give prompt service. They are more expensive, but they are also stress free. And a missed flight is just not worth the headache for the Uber experience.

Uber has killed taxi services in many cities and the replacement has been worse. Now uber drivers and taxi drivers are both complaining of the low pay and bad business.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#372
post #48

The real magic of Uber is that it allows drivers to convert the depreciation of their car into cash at a time and schedule of their own choosing. For the reasons discussed in the story, this may still technically be a net negative in the long term compared to driving a regular cab fulltime, but a) drivers find it far preferable to/cheaper than alternatives like payday loans, and b) many Uber drivers have multiple job…

You are 100% correct. This is the magic There are people who want to make a positive return on their time + vehicle depreciation. But they are on the open market competing against people who are in a cash crunch and happy to have a net negative return on the same, as long as it temporarily allows them to convert depreciation into cash. This is why drivers will always lose in the long term. They are racing against eac…

Perhaps the society just should make it easier for the destitute to find appropriate means to support themselves?

People act as if the fact that some people who are bored on a Saturday night are ready to give a cheap ride is a problem. It seems like it an absolute good and totally not a problem and should not be “fixed”.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you saying the drivers are too stupid to calculate they are making net money? that’s quite the (insulting) claim!

That's not what kanbara said. Most people are bad at calculating financial implications of decisions before them. There are lots of reasons for this (limited finance/math knowledge, impenetrable language in which conditions are layed out...) or actually don't have better options so they can literally be taken advantage of. Some may be even stupid, but there's no need or reason to reach for that as an explanation.

> Most people are bad at calculating financial implications of decisions before them.

This is such a horrible take and reeks of nanny state oversight. Millions of small business owners make these decisions all the time. Markets have a way of quickly rooting out those who aren’t making good decisions. Government has proven itself to be far less financially competent.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in a lot of locations, they had regulatory capture that ensure their success.

Even if you subscribe to this belief that somehow artificial conditions allow for taxis to exist, you have to start wondering maybe they have a good reason to exist since taxis are pretty much universally available everywhere you go. Even in their previous crappy form, they were ubiquitous like cockroaches. If literally every city in the world adopted this form of regulatory capture, maybe Uber et al can benefit from…

There is also good kind of regulatory capture. Like controlling supply ofc, annoying during night when bars closes, but also on other hand ensuring that someone is there to provide service at night during weekday. Or even capping the prices. And then having enforcement by cancelling licenses if proven wrongdoings where to happen.

System could function... And it did in some countries, apart from supply issues at most popular times. It was bit expensive, but driver's time or vehicles aren't cheap in expensive to live countries...

Re: The Uber Bubble

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah if you do the math you end up realizing you need to run the cars like airlines run planes - damn near continuously. Idle time is non paid time, and you need to keep everything moving. The real advantage of self driving taxis isn’t going to be the self driving, it’s going to be the 24 hour/day shifts they can pull.

That doesn't really work for taxis. No matter how much you want to distribute rides across the whole day, no discount is going to be able to get people to commute to work at midnight - most of your rides will happen around 9am and 5pm. So many taxis will have to spend a good chunk of the day idle. With self-driving taxis, at least you're not paying human drivers for some of this idle time (which Uber doesn't either A…

I think most of rides by volume will be around weekend and special holidays. But even then limited 2h-4h slots, around bar opening and closing times. Having enough supply for these peaks will be impossible to make work.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#377

> Oracle founder Larry Ellison noted that Uber’s app was less sophisticated than something his cat could have developed. That is the equivalent of "I could build that in a weekend" that you often hear from inexperienced devs that have no idea what they're talking about. In fact, we had the perfect experiment in Austin, TX, where a couple years ago the city essentially voted to kick out Uber and Lyft (required fingerp…

Uber used to have a much simpler app 6-7 years ago. I worked on a product that copied uber and gave whitelabelled uber like apps to taxi operators and other services that required similar functionality.

But even then, we found that the app was hiding a lot of complexity under that simple interface. The uber app of 2022 shows a UI that is a least 10x as complex and hides even more behind that interface.

Something as simple as how uber is able to show you car location in near real time on the screen requires a fair bit of engineering effort to get right at Uber's level of scale.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"credit card machine is broken." Things I don't ever have to hear or put up with ever again #623.

Definitely agree. Nowadays I have Uber drivers sit around the corner refusing to show up and calling me to tell me I should cancel so that I have to pay the $5 fine. Sure I can contact support to get that $5 back but it has happened to me so many times there really should be a button for it. It’s hard for me to believe Uber is not aware of this behavior.

That's very common in Prague. Uber in Prague is a disaster. About 5% of my rides are probably ending up with having to pay a cancellation fee for a driver who never showed up. Contacting support to resolve this is pain indeed. Most of the Uber rides in Prague are owned by limited liability companies (s r.o.). I guess there's some kind of an alliance between Uber and those local companies.

Another 5-10% or so of my Uber orders in Prague involve driver coming my way then cancelling after 5-10 minutes in the middle, then another driver picking up, and so on. You could be on a 3rd or 4th driver sometimes. Initially I thought this had something to do with traffic jams, but I am now beginning to doubt this, as it happened in mild traffic and off-peak hours as well. It is impossible to trust if Uber will arrive in 10 minutes, 20 minutes or not at all. An Uber ride to the airport is a lottery sometimes.

Finally, arrival times are usually understated. It can be 7 minutes on display but 15 minutes in reality. And this is mostly in Kosire area, about 15 minutes from the center. Whoever is reading this in Uber should really look into their Prague situation.

That being said, I am using Uber extensively in London as well and never have these issues. I also used it in California and never had issues. Uber in Prague is something else, my friends.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#379
post #211

My key takeaways: 1. Uber is actually a higher cost/less efficient producer of urban car services than the taxi companies it has driven out of business 2. Individual Uber drivers with limited capital cannot acquire, finance, maintain and insure vehicles more economically than Yellow Cab 3. Expenses other than drivers, vehicles, and fuel account for 15 percent of traditional taxi costs but Uber charges drivers 25-30 p…

I don't disagree with your points but let me give you some counterpoints: 1. Taxi services are balkanized; 2. Many tax services don't allow you to order a taxi ahead of time. You have to flag one down (eg NYC). For ordering a car, you need to otherwise deal with an (expensive) car service; 3. Uber made the payment process seamless and I cannot overstate how important this is as a user. I hate dealing with NYC yellow…

The thing with Uber is that in some places it's the best thing ever and in others it's just a complete disaster. Both view points are correct and I have experienced both myself. For example, when travelling, particularly in notoriously dangerous countries where taxis are extremely untrustworthy and often outright dangerous (driver works with gangs who mug or kidnap you - yes that almost happened to me and it happened to a female friend of mine) Uber has been a real superstar. Uber knows about my whereabouts, knows who picks me up, where the driver is driving, who the driver is and so forth. For a criminal that is too much intrusion and therefore Uber drivers are safer than regular cabs. You can verify that the person who drives the car matches the photo of your cabbie, you can check the reg number, you can follow on your phone if they drive the route calculated by Uber and so forth. If anything appears dodgy you never get in or you're out at the next red light.

On the other hand in first world countries and extremely well connected and overpopulated cities like London Uber is more of a disaster. They clog up the streets and create so much more unnecessary traffic. Uber drivers are extremely picky and don't accept rides which are not going from one prime location to another prime location. They are more expensive than black cabs and offer a worse service. In London black cabs are soooo much better, they can drive in bus lanes which Ubers can't do and therefore beat traffic whereas with an Uber you pay more and then it takes you still twice as long to get anywhere. Also black cabs have more space, they have card readers in the back and you can easily hail them down. It's so frustrating with Uber, especially at night when you want to get home from a party or something which is 10-15 mins away from a busy area and then you try to get an Uber and stare for about 20 minutes on your phone where the app makes you believe that you get a driver confirmed in 2 minutes but it keeps changing and nobody accepts. Literally happened to me so often, looking at my phone and it keeps lying to me that a driver is 3 mins away, then 2 mins, then 4 mins, nobody confirming but it also doesn't allow me to cancel after like 10-15 mins which means I'm then stuck waiting. Uber is so shit it pisses me off. If I don't get an Uber in like 2-3 min then I don't want it and just walk down the road and hail down the next cabbie. So much easier in London sometimes. Anyhow... it's very different in different places.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#380
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with your points but let me give you some counterpoints: 1. Taxi services are balkanized; 2. Many tax services don't allow you to order a taxi ahead of time. You have to flag one down (eg NYC). For ordering a car, you need to otherwise deal with an (expensive) car service; 3. Uber made the payment process seamless and I cannot overstate how important this is as a user. I hate dealing with NYC yellow…

in europe there are many taxi companies that have started to do uber app features and prepayment and all the jazz that make uber so great. the main issues i have with uber are that it's now almost more expensive than taxis, there's almost no regulation, the drivers are taken advantage of / not making profit and also not getting proper benefits. just because taxis suck doesn't mean uber should replace them. government…

I used Bolt in the EU
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