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A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

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Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#171
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One anecdote to another: Naltrexone isn't all that different from what you're describing Disulfiram as here - it's an opiod blocker so when you drink you get the poison and not the happy chemicals. That doesn't help with addiction, it's subjecting yourself to negative effects / conditioning for drinking. Naltrexone doesn't work for me. It is not very effective for some people.

Naltrexone and disulfram are incredibly different, both in terms of pharmacology and subjective experience. Naltrexone hangovers are an awful experience, but that's due to neurochemistry. It doesn't short citcuit metabolic pathways so you literally poison yourself when you drink alcohol.

Oh sure the process with how they work is very different. My point was more towards the 'this is unethical treatment' sentiment. I don't have experience with disulfram, but I'm familiar with a few different methods to treat addiction. Most of them make you feel like shit when you drink as a sort of skinner-style negative conditioning.

So yes, taking the one that doesn't actually make the poison _more toxic_ - just a less pleasant experience - is probably the preferred route so you don't endanger yourself. But it's still forcing yourself to extreme negative consequences and conditioning your brain to associate alcohol with misery.

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#172
post #7

Given the extremely strong negative reaction to alcohol that patients who are taking Disulfiram experience and given that this is apparently the sole effect that alcohol abuse cessation treatment using it relies on, it is my belief that the treatment is unconscionable and inhumane. I quit drinking after more than 25 years of problematic drinking using naltrexone (The Sinclair Method) and, given my experience with alc…

What happens if you are on naltrexone and you get hit by a bus and need surgery. Is there a problem where the anesthetic won’t work?

There are anesthetics specifically designed to blow through opiate blockers or tolerance. They, coincidentally, are also some of the most dangerous opiods to consume. Fentanyl is an example.

This question is also why it's important to have your prescriptions you're taking up to date with your emergency information / contact.

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#173
post #150
post #14

I am an alcoholic myself, sober for five months now after a long-term therapy. I am sceptical about taking meds for this desease. The change of life and coping with stress is the best way to avoid getting in relapse of use. The therapists said meds might be a help, but are not the solution. Its a trap for the dependant who might think now hes cured and does not find himself changing his life and solving problems whic…

I don't think evidence supports the idea that selling alcohol in special stores will avoid alcoholism. Hard drug users go to much more trouble than visiting a special store, and their numbers remain significant despite a variety of efforts to make access to hard drugs prohibited.

Yes it does show precisely that. Norway and Sweden has this arrangement. Richer alcoholics plan and hoard alcohol in their house and poorer alcoholics are severely limited by the firm opening hours and marketing-ban on alcohol and tobacco.

Interestingingly in Norway and Sweden the alcohol stores are also nationalised, run by the government.

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#174
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple studies have shown that alcohol sits in the top two of most destructive harddrugs for both the user and the user's surrounding. And still we can buy it everywhere. Like you say: the drinking culture must change.

> the drinking culture must change. Why? Because a small fraction of people can't handle alcohol? If you don't want to drink, don't. But don't tell me how to live.

You are very lucky to have never experienced addiction.

That's an assumption. If you have, and still believe the above, then your ethics may be obscuring your compassion or pragmatism.

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#175

I'm half asian and I get the "Asian flush" [0] which for all intents and purposes induces the same effect as this drug (DSF) >Individuals who experience the alcohol flushing reaction may be less prone to alcoholism. Disulfiram, a drug sometimes given as treatment for alcoholism, works by inhibiting acetaldehyde dehydrogenase, causing a five to tenfold increase in the concentration of acetaldehyde in the body. The res…

The effect you describe is only one of the effects of antabuse. The others are substantially worse (in that they are extremely painful and in that they can be medically quite severe).

The mechanism is similar, you're right, but not quite the same.

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#176
post #58
post #30

Need to point out that the disease theory of addiction is hotly debated in the US. Not so much in developed countries where socialized medicine is available, where the theory is widely discounted. Those interested should take a look at the work of Stanton Peele.

I’d imagine most addiction occurs when the body has a natural imbalance in certain neurotransmitters (GABA), so it seeks a way to adjust the balance (alcohol). Seems fair to call that natural imbalance a disease.

Your US medical insurance will cover an illness or disease (why 12 step for profit rehabs continue to lobby this idea). Less likely to cover you for a lifestyle choice that became a learned behavior.

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#177
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple studies have shown that alcohol sits in the top two of most destructive harddrugs for both the user and the user's surrounding. And still we can buy it everywhere. Like you say: the drinking culture must change.

> the drinking culture must change. Why? Because a small fraction of people can't handle alcohol? If you don't want to drink, don't. But don't tell me how to live.

You are missing the point.

Most people think slapping a line of coke on a kids birthday is not done, but drinking alcohol is. But alcohol is 3 times as destructive as coke.

And I also think the minority of people can't handle alcohol but most people can hide this.

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#178
"The only thing that cures alcoholism is a desire (and thorough conviction) to not to die with the dishonor of being a drunk." - Ohiovr -1

I wanted to try my comment again to see if I could rectify my error and apparent hypocrisy.

If anyone is still reading this thread and desires freedom from alcohol I will try to expand on this while it is still up. My desire to not die a drunk came suddenly to me late last year when one my beloved neighbor died one unfortunate night after a lifetime of alcoholism due to her drinking. She was a confessing christian and was not able to drive anymore because of a license suspension. I thought I too was a Christian.

Because she could not drive and since I too was an alcohol abuser I sought to please her by answering her request to buy cheap liquor for her from the place she wished while I was pounding cheap six packs night after night day after day for years.

Then one day her eyes turned yellow and I pleaded with her to seek medical attention. I said you probably better lay off the sauce for a while until you get well but she did not. Even if she had, it was already too late for her. A week later she was taken to the hospital and that night she died.

My brother also went to the hospital a couple years ago because of a lifetime of strong drink and he was also near death. By God's mercy he survived and though he is still a drinker he only drinks beer now and we both enjoyed about a hundred gallons of cheap beer since that time.

He was not a christian but I thought I was. I thought everyone who confessed the name of Christ was his and that his mercy could overlook such depraved behavior. I thought my neighbor was a confessing christian. When I was depressed she exhorted me over and over to read the book of Romans. Yet Paul had the harshest words for drunkenness. We tend to pick and choose what to accept and what to reject with what is already in our hearts and when our hearts are set one way we do not often let the truth in.

When she died I felt not only grave sadness for her loss but also deep guilt in my own conscious for not only being exactly like her but also enabling her death. I had defeated the enemy in me at that point concerning pornography (which to this day I have been free of for 6 months) I thought man I've done it, I'm now a christian for real. I had an abundance of confidence. But it was not so at all true that I really knew Christ.

Since December 27th I've been free of being a continuous alcoholic. I have to confess I did have one day of drink just recently but I did not seek any after. I do not intend on buying drink ever again. The drink I had was a gift from a friend (my landlord) who made wine with his own hands. I could not refuse. I did not feel the same pull I always did to have more and more. Indeed one drink ought to take me back to the abyss.

My life has been in turmoil all year yet I refused to see it until I dreamed an extraordinary dream of my Dad fist fighting me and being unable to get away from his wrath. There was no where to run, there was no where to hide.

I sought the meaning earnestly and received 2 other dreams. Some other dreams I had were completely humiliating. But all this was leading to something that I was not doing what I ought to do. I was proud, I needed a great deal of humility and I was unable to see that from what my peers were telling me.

I had to seek my Heavenly Father's countenance earnestly to find peace.

Dear friends, alcohol is a cruel master, it strips away your whole life. It will take the lives of those around you and leave you with guilt to consider what you did. It will take your job and your freedom. It will separate you from your family. It will even take away your communion with the Almighty.

I'm not writing this to condemn but to help. I love Christ because he first loved me! Love is not mere acceptance, nor is it slave to us. It is our master. Christ is love and he is truth. Christ does not reprove people he hates, reproof is love. The loving son accepts his father's reproof. The unloving son hates reproof.

The death of my neighbor may have indeed saved my soul. Because until that point I was living in grave error. Her death still reverberates day after day with her sister which is also now my beloved neighbor.

That is why I said only the desire to not be an drunk will save you from being one. But we are powerless to do this on our own. Alcohol has a very strong hold on some of us trying to cure or fill something in us which only the spirit of God can fill with concrete.

If you make Love your master, Christ incarnate is Love, instead of Alcohol, then nothing will be truly impossible for you if you remain in him. Pray earnestly for his splendid countenance and you will receive it.

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#179
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Benzos are often given short term- 3-5 days on a taper schedule to someone in detox. It is not recommended to give a script to an alky. Benzos are not as dangerous to withdraw from as alcohol but are horrible to detox from as they are fat soluble.

> Benzos are not as dangerous to withdraw from as alcohol That's not been my experience (and I've seen this play out for quite a while). I'm interested to know why this is the case.

Hi Chris,

Not sure if you are asking a question or not. To clarify, my understanding is that there is a greater risk of death when detoxing from alcohol,although it is possible to die from benzo withdrawal it is not as common. My information comes from registered nurses who worked in Rehabs, and years of interaction with a lot of ex-drunks. I did a very light search last night, but did not find anything that gave good comparisons.

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#180
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the drinking culture must change. Why? Because a small fraction of people can't handle alcohol? If you don't want to drink, don't. But don't tell me how to live.

You are missing the point. Most people think slapping a line of coke on a kids birthday is not done, but drinking alcohol is. But alcohol is 3 times as destructive as coke. And I also think the minority of people can't handle alcohol but most people can hide this.

You're missing the point. A kids birthday isn't a fun place to do coke. Coke goes with sex, dancing, mingling with strangers.
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