Live data from Hacker News

A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

tus.ac.jp

81–90 of 187 posts

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#81
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antabuse can lead to death or dangerous healh problems. The doctor is and will be responsible for that, so he wont take the risk.

"Antabuse can lead to death or dangerous health problems." So can a slew of other drugs. You should see the drug risks for stuff folks take for autoimmune disorders. It isn't just up to the doctor to mitigate the risks: Patients must do their part as well (blood tests and so on). And most importantly: So can alcoholism. Alcoholism kills slowly. Withdrawal can kill not-so-slowly. Somehow, do you think the doctor is no…

> So can a slew of other drugs

Dr isn't legally liable for drugs you find on your own.

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#82

Another alternative drug is emoxypine [1], sold under the brand name Mexidol. It also possesses anti-anxiety effects. Rather than make the user feel terrible when they drink (as in the case of disulfiram), it has effects more similar to naltrexone: reducing the effects of alcohol so the user does not experience the feelings they usually would. I think this is a lot more humane than disulfiram. [1] https://en.wikipedi…

I was just looking to see if someone had posted emoxypine.

I have some experience with this med and it does work as intended for alcoholism. Plus it does the job a lot more gently than what I imagine disulfiram does.

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#83
post #7

Given the extremely strong negative reaction to alcohol that patients who are taking Disulfiram experience and given that this is apparently the sole effect that alcohol abuse cessation treatment using it relies on, it is my belief that the treatment is unconscionable and inhumane. I quit drinking after more than 25 years of problematic drinking using naltrexone (The Sinclair Method) and, given my experience with alc…

Good on you! That's an amazing feat in itself.

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#84

My Dad was not an alcoholic but he had anxiety due to a long illness. Anxiety is terrifying to the person who has it but also to those around them. It starts silently and even people close to them may not even notice. Looking back when I was with my Dad little things now stand out more quirks as to why small things now upset him. As Dad's illness got worse I could see the anxiety but still I wasn't sure what I was se…

Did you ever get a chance to talk to your dad about the illness and the drugs effect on him personally? Did it take awhile to convince him to take it given his stoic nature?

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#85
In my early twenties, I took Buspirone for anxiety and it got the job done. Its my understanding that they also prescribe this to Alcoholics. I'm curious what overlap that old drug has with this or if it is entirely novel. Ironically, in my late twenties i would have considered myself an alcoholic, long after i got off buspirone. I am three years sober now.

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#86

I'm half asian and I get the "Asian flush" [0] which for all intents and purposes induces the same effect as this drug (DSF) >Individuals who experience the alcohol flushing reaction may be less prone to alcoholism. Disulfiram, a drug sometimes given as treatment for alcoholism, works by inhibiting acetaldehyde dehydrogenase, causing a five to tenfold increase in the concentration of acetaldehyde in the body. The res…

You might enjoy this https://dynomight.net/alcohol/

Interesting article, thanks!

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#87
post #7

Given the extremely strong negative reaction to alcohol that patients who are taking Disulfiram experience and given that this is apparently the sole effect that alcohol abuse cessation treatment using it relies on, it is my belief that the treatment is unconscionable and inhumane. I quit drinking after more than 25 years of problematic drinking using naltrexone (The Sinclair Method) and, given my experience with alc…

I absolutely agree that Disulfiram is an awful drug to treat alcohol abuse with, it feels like conversion therapy for taking a drink. Also, there is no fixing of the underlying issue at all with this drug (I'm pointly saying that conversion therapy is used to fix a problem that doesn exist).

I've seen a family member successfully win over an alcohol abuse issue by changing their job and getting therapy after detoxing safely in a hospital. Disulfiram should be bottom of the list for anyone, I've not heard of Naltrexone, but a quick google makes it sound like a superb option too.

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any medically backed information on the idea that alcoholism is an allergic reaction to alcohol? I mean -- it doesn't seem like a great analogy, but I don't generally have an uncontrollable desire to overindulge in cat dander and pollen, personally.

No. Allergic reactions are the immune system responding to a substance in a hypersensitive way[1]. There is however a genetic component to how people respond to alcohol. Some people after having 1 drink have a strong desire to continue drinking to blackout levels. Others are more likely to feel sick or sleepy after 2 drinks and have a desire to stop. It isn't an immune system reaction, but it is a reaction. The AA co…

I can't speak for all of AA obviously but I've been heavily involved in it for decades now. This is definitely one of those "all models are wrong but some models are useful" situations with the allergy thing.

Most individuals either find that model sufficiently useful that they don't need to expand it. Or, they're more or less fully aware of the gaps but still find that model useful. Or they don't find it useful and quietly use another model personally. All kinds of approaches in there.

If we're talking about 'the real world' then "It is never safe for you to begin drinking again, in any context" is a highly conservative and risk-averse approach, but it has been valuable for so many, and the consequences of relapse can be so high. AA is full of people who "went back out there" after 2, 5, 10+ years of sobriety because they thought they could reintroduce it into their lives and were wrong. Also many stories of people who did and just straight died in the relapse. Often our support networks can't handle another round, plus kindling is a real thing.

AA is where I first heard about van der Kolk's research, which demonstrates very convincingly that in some very real ways there's not a meaningful difference between "biological" and "psychological" components of trauma or addiction.

The AA framework has some incredible faults don't get me wrong. But above all those people are intensely, almost pathologically sometimes focused on "the real world." You'll hear some weird shit coming out of there sometimes because of that, but it doesn't mean they're not aware of the contradictions, or unwilling to apply more "scientific" models. Just, they have a system that works for a lot of people so they keep it going.

Re: A drug that cures alcoholism may be the next anti-anxiety medication

#90
post #7

Given the extremely strong negative reaction to alcohol that patients who are taking Disulfiram experience and given that this is apparently the sole effect that alcohol abuse cessation treatment using it relies on, it is my belief that the treatment is unconscionable and inhumane. I quit drinking after more than 25 years of problematic drinking using naltrexone (The Sinclair Method) and, given my experience with alc…

Alcoholism and opiate addiction have some underlying biochemical similarities that a lot of people seem unaware of, even though this explains the effectiveness of naltrexone. For background:

> "Opioid Systems. Endogenous opioids are small molecules naturally produced in the body that resemble morphine and have long been implicated in the actions of opiate drugs and alcohol. There are three classes of endogenous opioids: endorphins, enkephalins, and dynorphins. They all exert their effects by interacting with three subtypes of opioid receptors—μ, δ, and κ. Researchers have hypothesized that positive alcohol reinforcement is mediated at least in part by the release of endogenous opioids in the brain. This hypothesis is supported by numerous studies demonstrating that opioid antagonists acting either at all opioid receptor subtypes or only at specific subtypes suppress alcohol drinking in a variety of species and models (for a review, see Ulm et al. 1995). Moreover, complete inactivation (i.e., knockout) of the μ-opioid receptor blocks alcohol self-administration in mice (Roberts et al. 2000b). The agent naltrexone, a subtype-nonspecific opioid receptor antagonist, currently is approved as a treatment for alcoholism in humans and is particularly effective in reducing heavy drinking."

Neurobiology of Alchohol Dependence, Focus on Motivational Mechanisms https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh313/185-195.htm

Psychedelic drugs have also been used very effectively under controlled conditions (clinical settings) to break both opiate and alcohol addiction with remarkably high success rates. This is an entirely different approach than using blockers like naltrexone. For example:

"Psychedelics as an emerging novel intervention in the treatment of substance use disorder: a review " https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33231817/

> "It is believed that these agents allow for the reorganization of disordered neural pathways in the default mode network and attenuate maladaptive signaling in mesolimbic reward circuitry. The aim of this review is to examine the current standing of evidence regarding psychedelic psychopharmacology and to provide an overview of the use and effectiveness of these drugs in the treatment of SUD, alcohol use disorder, and for smoking cessation."

Post reply on HN