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They don’t work, it’s been politicized.
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The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown
61–70 of 295 posts
Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown
#62Why are they still pursuing Zero Covid? I know the article includes some speculation on this, but what's the best explanation?
- lower natural immunity rates because zero COVID had been successful - lower vaccination rates - vaccine drives prioritized the young and healthy (the idea being they can handle side effects so this seemed like the best way to achieve herd immunity) - the newer strains are super infectious and would overwhelm the healthcare system They don't have a good way out now. They should have used the time they got last year…
I think the other thing is China has somewhat demonised the rest of the world for is covid response, and it seems there was a lot of 'pride' at the fact the CCP had kept it at bay. Sort of "only the Chinese governmental system can save you", which for many months/years seemed true, with most of the rest of the world struggling to cope, wheras China was completely normal for a long time.
It's clear this is going to end extremely badly. Take a look at Hong Kong's death rate climb when it got out of control there - and HK is much richer than mainland China, with some of the best medical care in the world, and HK did have a fair bit of mRNA vaccine usage, whereas China has close to 0.
Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That said, as far as I can tell it's a very unevenly distributed disaster. I think this is one of the big issues with covid overall, especially how we discuss it over the internet. It is very possible that there is a person where everyone they know around them got covid as well as another person may only know one or two people who got it and only had mild cases. There's an extremely disproportionate distribution wh…
> Also, I am highly confused by China's zero coivd policy. Just by the nature of how viruses work, that seems impossible. It worked for original SARS, no?
2 big differences SARS didn't explode all over the globe and if you got SARS your fate was decided very quickly. Covid can be very mild or even asymptomatic making it easy to miss.
Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown
#64Why are they still pursuing Zero Covid? I know the article includes some speculation on this, but what's the best explanation?
I find it fairly amusing that people who believe in the "lableak-hypothesis" seem to usually also be in the camp of people who don't think the virus is too bad. If the virus really came from the lab, then presumably the Chinese know more about its (long term) effects than the rest of us. And looking at the fact, that they have this zero COVID policy, that should absolutely terrify anyone believing in the aforemention…
I find it more amusing that someone can think that the could CCP be seriously concerned about the long term wellbeing of the Chinese people. Surely if it disportionately affects older individuals, especially in the light of the demographic crisis China will being facing in not to distant future (and with no social security or widespread private pension schemes and limited immigration it would be reasonable that it will hurt the Chinese people more than those living in the west), culling as a many of them would help increase the average productivity of their 'citizens'?
What I just wrote must sounding disgusting, but let's not forget we're talking about country which until very recently practised forced abortion upon women choose to have more than a single child (pursuing an absurd and nonsensical policy which might imply that the CCP is not the most rational bunch...) and is still sending thousands if not millions of people in to concentration/reeducation camps merely because of their ethnicity and religion.
Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
"We" didn't kill anybody, they died of a highly transmissible and novel disease for which there was no cure and no vaccine for over a year. There was no possible way that death could have been completely averted. Yes, there were policy choices that could have been made differently, that would have potentially slowed the spread. We implemented many, decided not to implement others, and had a difficult time enforcing t…
> There was no possible way that death could have been averted. Respectfully, I disagree. If there was no possible way to avert it, how did China avert the vast majority of equivalent deaths? The action/omission distinction is for judging who started a fight in a schoolyard, not for judging the actions of nation-states.
I'm not taking a side on whether or not deaths could've been averted but I would be very skeptical of data coming out of China.
Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
"We" didn't kill anybody, they died of a highly transmissible and novel disease for which there was no cure and no vaccine for over a year. There was no possible way that death could have been completely averted. Yes, there were policy choices that could have been made differently, that would have potentially slowed the spread. We implemented many, decided not to implement others, and had a difficult time enforcing t…
> There was no possible way that death could have been averted. Respectfully, I disagree. If there was no possible way to avert it, how did China avert the vast majority of equivalent deaths? The action/omission distinction is for judging who started a fight in a schoolyard, not for judging the actions of nation-states.
>>how did China avert the vast majority of equivalent deaths?
Do you really believe they 'averted 'the deaths? or is it more likely they hid the truth. I vote for the latter; they don't have a good track record.
Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There was no possible way that death could have been averted. Respectfully, I disagree. If there was no possible way to avert it, how did China avert the vast majority of equivalent deaths? The action/omission distinction is for judging who started a fight in a schoolyard, not for judging the actions of nation-states.
>>how did China avert the vast majority of equivalent deaths? Do you really believe they 'averted 'the deaths? or is it more likely they hid the truth. I vote for the latter; they don't have a good track record.
> Do you really believe they 'averted 'the deaths? or is it more likely they hid the truth. I vote for the latter; they don't have a good track record.
They would not be able to hide infection on the level that the US has had it - antibody tests from travelers from China would show it trivially, social media would show it.
The idea that China has secretly had 3 million covid deaths and widespread infection without anybody realizing is a conspiracy theory.
Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown
#68Even New Zealand, an isolated island, gave up the pretence of of zero covid!
Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There was no possible way that death could have been averted. Respectfully, I disagree. If there was no possible way to avert it, how did China avert the vast majority of equivalent deaths? The action/omission distinction is for judging who started a fight in a schoolyard, not for judging the actions of nation-states.
I'm not taking a side on whether or not deaths could've been averted but I would be very skeptical of data coming out of China.
So the argument is that the lockdown secretly failed, but we somehow missed in all antibody tests from travelers in China the widespread covid infection and we also missed all the 3 million deaths?
Data from China is how we even got the sequence for the virus in the first place.
Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not really. There's also a lot of differences, like SARS didn't escape to be a global pandemic. I'd say that's a big difference. At this point zero covid is like trying to create a zero flu policy. That's very different from a zero measles policy.
Why? It's worked for them for a few years now and they have successfully mitigated what would have been millions of deaths. Your claim that it doesn't work because of the "nature of viruses" seems belied by the facts on the ground.
I don't think it has worked until they have zero covid. Maybe a silver lining from this will be people resisting anything happening they perceive as mistreatment from their government.