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Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

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Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#121

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

apostate wrote: post #107
infogulch wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [in France] you need to be paid during the non compete period (at least 1/3 of your compensation or something like this) Oh that's interesting. That is the first time I've seen a justifiable contractual consideration on the employer's side for a non-compete.

This is common in the financial industry above a certain level; it's called "garden leave".

No; that's different from a non-compete. The practice of "gardening leave" is giving an employee a relatively long notice period (say, 3 months). If the employee gives notice, the employer tells them to stay home during the notice period; they are still technically employed during that period, however.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#122

Post by [deleted] »

wnolens wrote: post #83
ozzythecat wrote: post #71

I can’t answer your specific question, but I would really encourage you to think more about the AWS offer. Having spent a decade at Amazon, across several organizations, I don’t recommend it as a place to work. There was a NYTimes article about the company in 2015. Everything there still reflects the day to day culture of the company. For me Amazon took an unprecedented toll on my mental and physical health. I did ea…

> Amazons leadership fundamentally does not see their employees as human beings I'm there right now and this is very true. It isn't even a hidden truth about working there. In fact, the company has a set of principles [0] that are necessary to adopt and use to justify all decisions you make or feedback you give to others. And missing from this set of principles? Any mention of the humanity of those you are leading. T…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#123

Post by janetacarr »

Get a lawyer.

I used to work in LegalTech, and contracts have a ton of little bits and things that can get the outcome Amazon would want in a legal battle. Provisions, Certain wording, etc. I've seen all kinds of nasty shit employers try to pull, from trying to prevent interactions with (any) "institutions", to my salary being "conferred" (a gift, not consideration) to me by the company at it's discretion.

For one, in this comment section, I see people suggesting you move to California, but in my experiences contracts often have a Governing Law provision, usually set in a jurisdiction the assigning party would feel comfortable in. Again, not a lawyer, I don't know how California's law works, but, if you worked in California, and the Governing law provision says Delaware, well, guess where you're (probably) flying to for those proceedings.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#124

Post by xienze »

d4mi3n wrote: post #84
cortesoft wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the same rule as California… you can have a non-compete, but that time has to be paid for separately than your normal wages.

This is probably one of the biggest reasons I'm unlikely to leave the state until other parts of the US make similar determinations. It boggles me that we allow employers to have so much control over an employees life after they have left said organization .

You really have to “be somebody” in order to have a non-compete enforced against you. If you’re like most people the company you left couldn’t care less where you go. Yes yes, there’s exceptions, but in general they’re rarely enforced.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#125

Post by mabbo »

Just FYI, this also applies while you work there. This makes it almost impossible to do any open source work, or have personal projects that you'd like to retain ownership of.

It's one of the reasons I left Amazon after nearly a decade. There was stuff I wanted to do and the non compete made it impossible.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#126

Post by vorpalhex »

otterley wrote: post #6

If you’re asking us here in HN, then it’s very unlikely that you have the sort of negotiating power required to get any sizable company to approve a customized set of legal documents relating to your hire. Changes to the standard set of hiring paperwork often require multiple managers and lawyers to sign off on it. For most positions and candidates, the effort isn’t considered worth it. You can certainly ask, but don…

I frequently get exceptions and changes to contracts. This has included me telling I flat out would not sign a particular document.

Never actually had it be a blocker or a problem. I'm just an engineer.

Lots of people will say it's a problem. They will claim it's going to be a big issue.

It isn't. Just stick to your guns. Be polite and be patient. Make it clear you have plenty of time available.

I had someone try to get my spouse to sign a contract without seeing it. The woman even had the gall to be offended when we declined without seeing it. After some hutzpah, we ended up literally sitting at this random employees desk for 20 minutes reading the contract before signing it.

Even that, while stupid, was not a big deal.

You always have the right to have a lawyer review documents. You can always take it home with you. You can always ask for changes. The worst they can do is say no - and usually they will say yes.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#127

Post by fennecfoxen »

colanderman wrote: post #46

I'm not a lawyer, and this is almost certainly misguided advice. But when faced with the same, I requested (and got) in writing that the non-compete clause was nonnegotiable, hoping that, should push come to shove, the clause could be found legally non-binding as a contract of adhesion [1]. Also note that Massachusetts recently (2018) signed into law restrictions on non-competes. One of the major aspects is that such…

The problem with "contract of adhesion" here is that while one term may have been non-negotiable for one of the parties, the contract as a whole likely wasn't, and you negotiated things such as pay.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#128

Post by apostate »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #121
apostate wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is common in the financial industry above a certain level; it's called "garden leave".

No; that's different from a non-compete. The practice of "gardening leave" is giving an employee a relatively long notice period (say, 3 months). If the employee gives notice, the employer tells them to stay home during the notice period; they are still technically employed during that period, however.

Gotcha; never been subject to gardening leave myself, but I always assumed it exists for the same purpose as a noncompete, i.e. to provide a 'cooling off' period to lessen the competitive impact that the exiting employee can have by switching to another firm. I assumed that since it's been around a while in finance that the "paid noncompete" idea became a negotiated part of the comp.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#129

Post by rosndo »

carimura wrote: post #50
rosndo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclosing such a non-compete to a potential employer is such a dumb move that it’s pretty obvious why they would withdraw their offer. Not because the non-compete is scary, but because the potential new hire is clearly an idiot.

ouch. what awful advice. lying by omission is not only a terrible way to enter into a trusting relationship with a new employer but could also be committing fraud.

Not advertising the fact that you previously signed a non-binding unenforceable noncompete is not lying by omission.

Re: Ask HN: Has anyone successfully renegotiated an AWS non-compete?

#130

Post by mkl95 »

drstewart wrote: post #95
mkl95 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sums up non competes in Europe. Usually companies are required to pay 25%-75% of a former employee's salary in order to make a non compete clause enforceable.

How does 25% of your salary "sum up" 18 months pay for 18 months non-compete?

25-75% of your salary every month, until the clause expires. So if you were making $100k a year you are getting $25-75k a year until it expires.
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