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A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#741
post #732
post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want the knowledge out there, I just don't want it to be used against people. You can learn love languages, you can talk about them to people, but you can't use bring it up with people you're in a relationship with. Especially in a discussion about your relationship. The point is for people to focus on learning rather than weaponization. And it's not just love languages. It's pretty much every psychological and soc…

not talking about your feelings in your relationship is exactly what opens you up for abuse. you both need to communicate openly with each other about everything you feel. if you can't do that then the relationship has a serious problem, and i would seek counselling

Talking about your feelings is fine. The line comes when you start making demands of the other person.

People also see these things as magic phrases that will solve the problem. They're not. Interpersonal conflicts are complex even at their simplest. So while it is good to know about all of these things, as a tool of active communication, they're often lacking.

Because the goal of a relationship should be to find a person you mesh well together with, not to find someone you can mold into a perfect partner. That's also a serious problem.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cant think of worse relationship advise than be with someone who never triggers a negative response in you.

What? You want more negative experiences? That defines a good relationship for you? I can’t think of a better goal than to be with somebody so compatible that you have minimal friction and minimal issues.

Sure. Minimal. But if you rule people out for any amount of conflict then you will never be in a relationship long term. My wife and I do not argue often but it does happen.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that is trivial to one may be very large to another. There is a whole slew of reasons why but just because one partner deems something trivial the other may not agree. Some things may objectively be trivial but we are a complex species. The flip side of this argument is that if its so trivial for one, why don't they change the behavior for the other who deems it non trivial?

Because this kind of behaviour is endemic in emotional abusers. There will always be something else that annoys them. Emotional abusers look for weaknesses and exploit them mercilessly. They don't really care about the issue and will move on to something else, ad infinitum. This is the very reason why you never give a bully or a narcissist a single inch. What they are trying to do is keep you off balance, make you wa…

> This is the very reason why you never give a bully or a narcissist a single inch.

If you are married to the person surely the goal should be to find some middle ground.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#744
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I first want to say that I cringed reading the entire original article. But I want to address something you said as well, "TLDR Women are more picky th a n Men". This is highly age-dependent... On average : A 21 year old woman on a dating site has to be picky. She's getting constant messages from men anywhere from 18 years old to 100 years old. A 40 year old woman is still a bit picky on a dating site but is starting…

This is an over generalization, every person is different and has their own quirks and preferences. The hot take you've presented is useless at best, and possibly even harmful to view people from such a single dimensional lens based on their age.

https://medium.com/@okcupid/the-case-for-an-older-woman-99d8...

> As it is, men between 22 and 30 — nearly two-thirds of the male dating pool — focus almost exclusively on women younger than themselves. I’ll be investigating this phenomenon today, with gusto and charts. Ultimately, I’ll argue that they would be well-served to expand their search upwards, to women in their thirties and forties.

> The bar chart here shows how the woman to man ratio changes over time. As you can see, it’s basically flat. In a better world, this would imply that older people don’t necessarily have a harder time finding decent mates than younger ones, as the composition of the dating pool holds relatively steady from age to age. Put another way: a 45 year-old woman shouldn’t in theory have a harder time finding a date than a 20 year-old, because the female-to-male ratios at those ages are equal (roughly 11:9).

> Of course, we all know that 45 year-olds do have a much harder time, because the male fixation on youth distorts the dating pool.

> As you can see, men tend to focus on the youngest women in their already skewed preference pool, and, what’s more, they spend a significant amount of energy pursuing women even younger than their stated minimum. No matter what he’s telling himself on his setting page, a 30 year-old man spends as much time messaging 18 and 19 year-olds as he does women his own age. On the other hand, women only a few years older are largely neglected.

I don't want to pollute the thread with more quotes. Check out the graphs, it's illuminating; the data backs the assertion of the comment you replied to.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#745
post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, although I think the term "slob" is a bit extreme here. I would say that I'm just not very into what I would call "organization for the sake of organization". For example: 1. As the author already mentions, why put a cup into the dishwasher if you plan on using it again? 2. Why fold and put away my pants if I wear the same pants everyday for a week? 3. Why hang my jacket if I know I'm leaving again in an…

>I think the term "slob" is a bit extreme here >I wear the same pants everyday for a week I have nothing more to say. :P (In all seriousness, maybe have a chat with people you trust about general smell/hygeine. Dental shit especially is something so many grown adults get completely wrong. Not everyone notices it, but there's a damn good reason I go out of my way to sit next to black people on the train! :P). > I thin…

Pants do not smell after 5 days of wearing them at your desk..

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#746

About 10 years ago, I had a internship at Newell Rubbermaid. As part of the experience, the entire group of interns across all the brands got to have lunch with the CEO and basically ask him anything we wanted. At some point, someone asked about his biggest regret. We all expected some business blunder, but he said that he was offered an executive position by Kraft to lead their Asian segment, and that his wife reall…

It's ironic to me when women choose successful ambitious men to marry and then complain these same keep striving to climb up the corporate ranks.

People seem to gloss over the fact that while she married an ambitious man, he also married her. If he did not want her to have equal say in their life (note this is his and hers life being impacted!) he should not have married her.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#747

My relationship just ended for mostly similar reasons (it wasn't just glasses in the sink, it was a few other things I did that she considered disrespectful that seemed minor to me) I was the only one working and paying for the apartment, her hobbies, and school, but things like the above would escalate into long arguments that I would ask to defer. The problem was, I would sometimes forget details that were importan…

When you are the only one paying for apartment, hobbies and school, since those "minor" things are out of her mind she has all the time and energy to ngaf about it and bloat her ego, manipulate and gaslight you into thinking you are not good enough boyfriend... husband... father... These are classic manipulation tricks of narcissists. And the fact that she allows herself to engage in a 6 hour argument during workdays…

Thank you for saying this. This resonates to a T.

I used to memorize her arguments so that I could use them against her later, only to find that she somehow had another ace up her sleeve. Indefinitely. Leaving me feeling, yet again, like everything was my fault.

My fault for not being understanding enough. My fault for not knowing what she was thinking or going through. My fault for bringing up the issue at the wrong time. My fault for being hurt by her comments or actions.

We separated 4 years ago and she's still telling everyone about how "abusive" I was.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#748
post #445

A lot of folks are misinterpreting this article, or just using it as a jumping off point to get something off their chest. This article is not literally about the dirty dish. It's not even about compromise. Rather, the article is really about having healthy communication with your partner. The author's wife was trying to communicate to him: "when you do X, I feel like Y, and it hurts me." But he wasn't hearing it. No…

Yeah, this is just about communication, full stop. I do the same thing with my partner but I also have ADHD so I genuinely get distracted by something else and forget a lot of the time. When I do remember, I do the right thing and put them away (most of the time). I didn't used to but I make a better effort nowadays When it was initially brought up I said: "I know it bothers you, but there is something up with my bra…

ADHD is such "fun".

> PSA before I say anything else, anyone who knows anyone with ADHD should read up on Object Permanence[1] and Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria[2]! Only very recently has RSD been tied to ADHD and holy crap, the previous 35 years make SOOOO much more sense now. If I had know about them younger I could have possibly avoided so many painful "learning experiences" where I hurt those I cared about...

When your spouse says "when you do X, I feel like Y, and it hurts me." and you desperately want to not do X anymore buy your brain keeps sabotaging you, it makes your whole life terrible.

I finally learned that "close" is often actually worse than not doing anything, because it removes any possibility of me completing the task. It also tends to come across as me doing the least amount of effort possible so I can feel good that I "helped".

To continue using the dishes example, if I have a dish at my desk and think "oh I have a meeting in a minute, I'll drop off in the kitchen on the way to grab X ", 80%-99% of the time I would leave it sitting somewhere besides the dishwasher (or whatever the final destination should be.) It turns out that once the dish is out of my sight, it's not consciously "my problem" anymore and I can/will ignore it. (stupid Object Permanence[1])

No matter my intentions, and no matter how "sure" I was that I would be right back to finish the task, statistically it was not going to happen. (Also, I recommend actually counting this stuff occasionally, it is mind-blowing how unreliable we are as narrators of our own lives. Just DO NOT follow up by trying to make business-ish decisions or justifications about it, this is about feelings and perceptions not numbers. )

Looking back, the walk to the kitchen is literally the easiest/least annoying part of the task so I would have not actually contributed anything meaningful, however if asked I would have easily sprouted off that I "took care of my own dishes" - a statement that actually implies that the remaining work was trivial and meaningless. I can already hear people saying "But it is trivial!" and that is actually worse, because that means that performing a trivial task was more effort that I was willing to invest in our relationship. (Regardless of how I felt or my intent, communication and perception are key here.)

It turns out having an empty dish on my desk bugs me and having it not in the dishwasher bugs my spouse (in addition to meaning they now have another task to add to their own list), only one of these locations will jar my brain enough that I will consistently take action!

I now make myself turn around an put the dish back on my desk unless I expect to actually complete the task (dish => dishwasher) in one go. Many times my spouse will come grab dishes from my desk while I work, and that does not bother them because unlike the glass by the sink I will eventually take care of them.

I imagine the difference between constantly having new dishes dropped off as if you are a scullery maid, and "Let me grab these dishes while you are working, I know they are bothering you" as a voluntary "tiny acts of service that people in love do for each other"[3] is massive, and carries vastly different connotations.

[1] https://themighty.com/2021/09/adhd-forget-friends-love-me-ob... [2] https://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria [3] Thanks for the wording Zaroth!

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-violent communication[1] is fantastic when both parties utilize it during disagreements as it helps prevent escalations. How you resolve differences is more important than the differences themselves and is foundational to any relationship. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication

A friend was following that book’s suggestions all the day. He sounded so fake. Horrible read IMO.

That's why I said it has utility when both parties to a disagreement appreciate it and use it.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I would say it's generally a waste of time unless you're bed is so off that you can't comfortably get back into it. I think the point about making the bed is that it takes all of 30 seconds and makes the entire room look significantly more orderly. One of the highest-ROI cleaning tasks, in terms of time spent vs. tidiness gained.

The actual reason to make ones bed is to let air circulate in the parts of the bed, that potentialy have been sweaty all night, which increases hygiene. At least in my book that is the main reason. Secondary reason might be, that it is nicer to let oneself fall into a nicely made bed at night. Third might be, that it looks more orderly.

> The actual reason to make ones bed is to let air circulate in the parts of the bed

I don't follow - doesn't making a bed involve covering the bottom sheet and mattress cover, which is likely what absorbed the most sweat, with the top sheet and blankets, which would block the airflow to it?

When I need to air out my bed, I push the blanket and top sheet over to the side opposite the side I slept, which makes it look messier, not nicely made.

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