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Doom Cacowards

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Re: Doom Cacowards

#21

Post by AgentME »

I used to be really into the Doom modding community and the ZDoom forums specifically 10-15 years ago, so it's really funny to me seeing a reference to this here now.

Back then I got invited into helping on a big custom map pack project and did a lot of level scripting for it. Nearly failed a few high school classes because I was skipping homework to work on it, and I ended up quitting cold turkey before the end to focus on school. The project was great experience and I think of it as my first real software development experience programming something for actual users. (It was also what made me realize I absolutely needed to learn a version control system like Git. Never again am I doing any group work on that kind of project if actual version control isn't used!) I was excited to learn later that the project got finished and it was one of the 2010 Cacowards winners (Stronghold).

Re: Doom Cacowards

#22

Post by bobsmooth »

mosfetarium wrote: post #16
dleslie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incredible how it sucks people in. The skill floor to expressing yourself is _damn low_; if you can draw 2D polygons, then you can make a Doom map with DoomBuilder[0]. But the skill ceiling is high. And the ease of creation allows for equal ease in iteration. And the source ports add loads of neat little features to add even more capacity for variety. So you start by throwing together some boxes; and before you…

The incredibly low skill floor is definitely a big part of the scene's success. I know a number of veteran professional level designers are kinda worried about the field. So many of them got their starts playing around with the level creation stuff that frequently came with PC games. It got them interested and allowed them to walk before they could run. So they're a bit afraid a new generation might be starting from…

Despite it's exploitative nature, I think Roblox will be sited by a lot of people as their first experience with game dev in the future.

Re: Doom Cacowards

#23

Post by ecliptik »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #20

The Cacoward levels are so good that SoBad on YouTube is playing _the runners-up_ and still encountering awesome levels like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drKn_EzQxg0 , with that super cool concept starting after 1:27 (but don't skip to there).

Always happy to find another Doomtuber to subscribe too. I really enjoy watching Decino[1], especially their deep dive Doom technical videos.

1. https://youtube.com/c/decino

Re: Doom Cacowards

#24

Post by kbenson »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #20

The Cacoward levels are so good that SoBad on YouTube is playing _the runners-up_ and still encountering awesome levels like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drKn_EzQxg0 , with that super cool concept starting after 1:27 (but don't skip to there).

Wow, that's creative. I want to watch all of these now. Thanks for the link!

Re: Doom Cacowards

#25

Post by paulryanrogers »

everyone wrote: post #5
paulryanrogers wrote: post #2

Ashes Afterglow looks really impressive. Blade of Agony too, even if it may not have a Cacowad award of its own. These mods are a great way to experience a mix of old and new tech and old and new styles in gaming.

I highly recommend the Ashes 2063 series.

Finally installed it tonight. So far so good. Besides the lack of slopes it's a good mod: solid art, actual plot, levels that feel connected, good gunplay, and perfect lighting for that lantern.

Re: Doom Cacowards

#26

Post by Noumenon72 »

ecliptik wrote: post #23
Noumenon72 wrote: post #20

The Cacoward levels are so good that SoBad on YouTube is playing _the runners-up_ and still encountering awesome levels like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drKn_EzQxg0 , with that super cool concept starting after 1:27 (but don't skip to there).

Always happy to find another Doomtuber to subscribe too. I really enjoy watching Decino[1], especially their deep dive Doom technical videos. 1. https://youtube.com/c/decino

You might enjoy his video critiquing one of Decino's Italo-Doom playthroughs, then. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7GYBZlhrg8

Re: Doom Cacowards

#27

Post by mosfetarium »

dleslie wrote: post #19
mosfetarium wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incredibly low skill floor is definitely a big part of the scene's success. I know a number of veteran professional level designers are kinda worried about the field. So many of them got their starts playing around with the level creation stuff that frequently came with PC games. It got them interested and allowed them to walk before they could run. So they're a bit afraid a new generation might be starting from…

Yep, as a fellow game developer (programmer) I had similar concerns... Until recently. Unity had the issue of the high skill floor of creating meshes for scenes until recently. You can now build reasonable looking unity scenes using a process akin to Hammer and QERadiant; albeit still inferior to those, IMHO. There's also the resurgence of interest in crunchy arcade shooters, using classic engines no less, which is d…

There's definitely been improvements in level editors for existing engines. Hell, if you want to use those old editors, there are even plugins like HammUEr, to use Hammer with Unreal 4 and Qodot to use editors like TrenchBroom with Godot.

But I will say there was something particularly special about level editors coming with the greatest games of the day back in the 90s and early 2000s. Not only was this extremely accessible as it meant you could just learn level design, and not the rest of game development, but it meant you got to learn level design for your favourite games, something particularly enticing to young people. You also got a bit of a built-in audience.

Re: Doom Cacowards

#28

Post by MathMonkeyMan »

I enjoy watching expert doom players grind crazy modern maps more than I enjoy playing doom. Went through a whole phase where I was watching various doom streamers on twitch, or mappers who play and critique each others' maps. It's fun.

Re: Doom Cacowards

#29

Post by paulryanrogers »

mosfetarium wrote: post #7

Doom mapping is basically it's own weird artform that people have been refining for nearly 30 years. Unlike a modern AAA game it's typical for a single person to make a Doom map and so people can develop very unique and identifiable styles that come through in their maps. If you're an old Doom-fan and never got around the checking out the scene, Cacoward winners are a great place to find some highlights.

It wasn't always so easy. Doing maps in the mid 90s relied on very limited tools and ones imagination. Build actually helped push things forward a lot. Glad to see modern Doom tooling has risen to the occasion.

Re: Doom Cacowards

#30

Post by unixhero »

mosfetarium wrote: post #16
dleslie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incredible how it sucks people in. The skill floor to expressing yourself is _damn low_; if you can draw 2D polygons, then you can make a Doom map with DoomBuilder[0]. But the skill ceiling is high. And the ease of creation allows for equal ease in iteration. And the source ports add loads of neat little features to add even more capacity for variety. So you start by throwing together some boxes; and before you…

The incredibly low skill floor is definitely a big part of the scene's success. I know a number of veteran professional level designers are kinda worried about the field. So many of them got their starts playing around with the level creation stuff that frequently came with PC games. It got them interested and allowed them to walk before they could run. So they're a bit afraid a new generation might be starting from…

Also, bad and low quality doom levels can be extremely fun to play. There is a fun element to this as well.
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