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Doom Cacowards

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Re: Doom Cacowards

#11

Post by yeetsfromhellL2 »

dleslie wrote: post #8
everyone wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard of DOOM maps has gotten very high. SIGIL is fine, but compared to the current standard, the maps were pretty crappy tbh, in every respect, technical, encounters, design. Afaik they only included it at all as an honour to Romero. If some randomer had submitted it, it would not have been mentioned.

I'm a hardcore Doom fan; have been since its release. I have it as one of the first installs on every device I have; even my Windows machines have a portable Doom configured and ready to go in their Onedrive folders. SIGIL is probably one of the best _Doom_ experiences since "Doom the way id Did". Too many modern maps lean heavily on limit-removing ports, and other modern features, and lose the sine qua non that made…

That's what I like about it, it feels like a natural continuation from the original.

Re: Doom Cacowards

#12

Post by dleslie »

sacrosancty wrote: post #10
dleslie wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a hardcore Doom fan; have been since its release. I have it as one of the first installs on every device I have; even my Windows machines have a portable Doom configured and ready to go in their Onedrive folders. SIGIL is probably one of the best _Doom_ experiences since "Doom the way id Did". Too many modern maps lean heavily on limit-removing ports, and other modern features, and lose the sine qua non that made…

Somehow I find those high-class wads to be tedious and frustrating. But I find slaughterwads to be a great way to clear my head and truly escape the normal world. They get your heart racing. No time to stop for a breath. If you even turn around, you'll be dead. They're all I play on Doom. Some of my favorites are Dholes and Royale Arena - Cannonball which have beautiful architecture and some puzzle elements but still…

It's clearly a matter of taste, for sure! Ain't nothing wrong with slaughter wads. If they're your bag, then I'm glad you enjoy them.

I think the last I played was Sunder[0]. Good times.

0: https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sunder

Re: Doom Cacowards

#13

Post by qbasic_forever »

yeetsfromhellL2 wrote: post #3

I'm still not sure how SIGIL only got a 2019 runner up. A 5th Episode of the original DOOM, made by John Romero, which was completely awesome, kicked ass and had a soundtrack by Buckethead? I fail to see how any of the competitors could have matched it.

I bet John is actually happier that the game he helped create almost 30 years ago is still so popular and has such a vibrant community that he's not the top dog in level creation.

Re: Doom Cacowards

#16

Post by mosfetarium »

dleslie wrote: post #9
mosfetarium wrote: post #7

Doom mapping is basically it's own weird artform that people have been refining for nearly 30 years. Unlike a modern AAA game it's typical for a single person to make a Doom map and so people can develop very unique and identifiable styles that come through in their maps. If you're an old Doom-fan and never got around the checking out the scene, Cacoward winners are a great place to find some highlights.

It's incredible how it sucks people in. The skill floor to expressing yourself is _damn low_; if you can draw 2D polygons, then you can make a Doom map with DoomBuilder[0]. But the skill ceiling is high. And the ease of creation allows for equal ease in iteration. And the source ports add loads of neat little features to add even more capacity for variety. So you start by throwing together some boxes; and before you…

The incredibly low skill floor is definitely a big part of the scene's success.

I know a number of veteran professional level designers are kinda worried about the field. So many of them got their starts playing around with the level creation stuff that frequently came with PC games. It got them interested and allowed them to walk before they could run. So they're a bit afraid a new generation might be starting from less than they had. There's some hope that maybe Minecraft and Roblox will be a younger generation's starting point.

Game development is the most accessible it's been in many decades, but level design specifically is perhaps less accessible than it was circa 2000.

Re: Doom Cacowards

#18

Post by markus_zhang »

Doom/Build engine games/Quake/Unreal/Half-Life1&2 are the best games for modding. Engine is relatively simple, tons of tutorials and high quality examples, and a steady fan base.

The 90s through early 2000s were the best time for FPS modding and mapping, par none.

Re: Doom Cacowards

#19

Post by dleslie »

mosfetarium wrote: post #16
dleslie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incredible how it sucks people in. The skill floor to expressing yourself is _damn low_; if you can draw 2D polygons, then you can make a Doom map with DoomBuilder[0]. But the skill ceiling is high. And the ease of creation allows for equal ease in iteration. And the source ports add loads of neat little features to add even more capacity for variety. So you start by throwing together some boxes; and before you…

The incredibly low skill floor is definitely a big part of the scene's success. I know a number of veteran professional level designers are kinda worried about the field. So many of them got their starts playing around with the level creation stuff that frequently came with PC games. It got them interested and allowed them to walk before they could run. So they're a bit afraid a new generation might be starting from…

Yep, as a fellow game developer (programmer) I had similar concerns... Until recently.

Unity had the issue of the high skill floor of creating meshes for scenes until recently. You can now build reasonable looking unity scenes using a process akin to Hammer and QERadiant; albeit still inferior to those, IMHO.

There's also the resurgence of interest in crunchy arcade shooters, using classic engines no less, which is drawing attention to tools like DoomBuilder and TrenchBroom.

Annnd VR tools are making complex mesh building a lot more accessible by making it a lot more intuitive.

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