Always thought of muting as the other party not hearing what I say, not that the app wasn't listening. It's running after all. Assume it's listening to everything
You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off
281–290 of 353 posts
Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Then why mute yourself? Why not? The only sound they will find is my dogs barking, doors slamming (I lives in apartment), my partner talking in his phone, all of that background noise. Why participants should be subjected to those noise and why Zoom need to know the noises? > Why do you prefer to sign over video instead of typing? Are there forms of expression that are more natural that way? We signs because Signed…
I'm fascinated by your last point. Are you saying that being deaf impedes your written communication ? As a layman I would have thought that written communication would be a godsend.
Sign languages aren't English-but-via-hands (even American and British sign languages). They have their own unique vocabulary and grammar. For native speakers of a sign language, English is a foreign language.
Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it a serious question? Why do you prefer to speak over video instead of typing?
I am curious about that too (although others have already answered). I prefer typing over speaking. But I have realized that a lot of people I interact with find it more difficult to understand information in written form. Ie it's easier to teach someone with spoken language than over written text. I dislike video calls.
Probably similar reason why, after about 5-6 back and forth cycles in a direct Slack chat, I will usually suggest we get open a voice call to finish the conversation. It is faster and the level of communication is better. Typing is slower and you don’t get nuance hence why some people use emoji.
I totally understand why the person above indicated that they preferred signing to typing.
Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off
#284I feel like they're trying to make an insidious suggestion about the usage of these. IMO, there's likely a good reason - user experience. At a hardware level, grabbing the microphone can take time. Even worse that timing is inconsistent across devices, workloads, etc. That leads to a bad experience when unmuting and needing to delay your commentary. The solution to this is to keep the microphone on, but mute at a sof…
Honestly, it feels like most people here aren't reading the article. > The researchers then decided to see if they could use data collected on mute from that app to infer the types of activities taking place in the background. Using machine learning algorithms, they trained an activity classifier using audio from YouTube videos representing six common background activities, including cooking and eating, playing music…
> How about we not make the default that companies can do whatever they want and users have to take steps like a hardware-muted mic
You're implying government policy for how companies operate in this area... Which is worth pursuing, but we all know that usually ends up half way effective, requires a cat and mouse game of auditing and enforcement, or big companies playing fight club math with the fines.
Even if this was already the case for this particular issue, as users we end up never really being sure if a company is violating that particular requirement.
> users have to take steps like a hardware-muted mic (which isn't always an option) to ensure a basic expectation of privacy?
This should be the default, just like how operating systems and networking evolved over the past 30 years starting with a "trusts everyone" attitude towards a "trust no one" by default. We need to assume most companies are potential bad actors, the hardware and software that comprises the basic operation of our device needs to provide the user with facilities to control flow of information separate from third parties, especially when it comes to input devices. In the case of microphones and cameras hardware switches should be the norm, or at minimum indicator lights.
This could also quite easily be a government policy for hardware vendors, and I suspect it would be more effective... It only has to reach a threshold after which users expectations shift to force manufacturers hands, so it's direct effect need not be as comprehensive to be effective.
Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm not sure why they don't say which one Yeah, that's very annoying. Zoom, for example, will tell you, when you are muted and you begin to speak. It's a very nice thing. I have a microphone (that wasn't expensive) that has a hardware mute. I use it when I really want to make sure I'm not heard, even for "speaking" detection.
MacBook pros already have a mute-speaker button. It would be so nice to have a mute-mic button which lights up when muted.
My Dell laptop from work has this feature, there is a mute mic button and it lights up. With my desktop I have a usb mic that has a mute button and a red/green LED to indicate the state.
Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or, you know, keeps your ass safe from being sued...
Anybody can sue you at any time for any reason. For libel and slander cases though, telling the truth is a valid defense.
This view vastly underestimates the ability of a completely wrong party to sue for slander. In the US at least. You see this with pseudoscientific snake oil salesmen all the time.
Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off
#287Just use opensource and ditch all commercial apps of this kind:
1. Jitsi (sadly, it's Java though) https://jitsi.org/
2. Element (sadly, it's Electron though) https://element.io/
3. BigBlueButton https://bigbluebutton.org/
4. Jami https://jami.net/
Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ironically this is a good use case for a Touch Bar: a button on your keyboard that is only there _sometimes_ because it’s only needed in certain contexts (when you’re on a call)
The touch bar is like an idea that works really well in your head. It has so many theoretical cool uses. But in reality I end up never using it for anything.. I would have been happy if the new one had the touch bar and the function keys, but that would have been extra cost for a feature people just aren't using.
After using a stream deck for some odd automation, I think the real flaw was having the touch bar be so contextual, and replacing the existing function keys. Had both existed, and and allowed the user to extend their customisation; say buttons for common actions, siri suggestions, shortcuts it may have been perceived differently, and more of power user tool.
Most of the actions just duplicated existing UI elements.
Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
In their actual paper[1] they identify it as Webex. [1] https://wiscprivacy.com/papers/vca_mute.pdf
Webex will by default listen for ultrasound emitted by some video conferencing devices for easy stop. If you disable this, does that change the results?
I was suspecting this was webex, I use an external audio device (plantronics/polycom Calisto 7200) that has an indicator when the microphone is active.
It's only anecdotal, but for me when the webex ultrasound features is activated, the microphone is constantly active as long as webex chat is running.
When the ultrasound detection is disabled, the microphone is disabled when not in a meeting.
As an aside, this setting was reset recently, but that just seems like the ongoing dark pattern/incompetence of "forgetting" privacy settings between software releases.
Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Isn't it common knowledge by now that cameras and microphones are still "on" No. Can you provide evidence. Because that would imply that applications are routinely bypassing OS security controls. Which at least on a Mac requires a sophisticated compromise i.e. the camera light is directly linked to the camera itself via an independent subsystem.
Instagram uses camera as soon as you open the app, as it's a relatively slow process to fully load the camera and make it fully usable in a way Instagram devs intended to. They've admitted it themselves. Not sure about microphones.
Wrong.
On iOS there is an orange/green dot in the menu bar that indicates when the microphone or camera are in active use. The dot appears when you try and use say the Live feature but at all other times it does not appear.
My point still stands that unless apps have compromised iOS/OSX it is NOT true to say that the camera/microphone are always on.