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A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#581

Post by beowulfey »

MrFantastic wrote: post #360
beckler wrote: post #243

About 10 years ago, I had a internship at Newell Rubbermaid. As part of the experience, the entire group of interns across all the brands got to have lunch with the CEO and basically ask him anything we wanted. At some point, someone asked about his biggest regret. We all expected some business blunder, but he said that he was offered an executive position by Kraft to lead their Asian segment, and that his wife reall…

It's ironic to me when women choose successful ambitious men to marry and then complain these same keep striving to climb up the corporate ranks.

Believe it or not, some people enter enter into marriage as equals, and view each other as teammates working together and respecting each other’s input into major life decisions.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#582

Post by op00to »

andreyk wrote: post #189

"Hundreds, maybe thousands of times, my wife tried to communicate that something was wrong. That something hurt. But that doesn’t make sense, I thought. I’m not trying to hurt her; therefore, she shouldn’t feel hurt. ... There is only one reason I will ever stop leaving that glass by the sink, and it’s a lesson I learned much too late: because I love and respect my partner, and it really matters to them." wow.... thi…

> "Hundreds, maybe thousands of times, my wife tried to communicate that something was wrong."

If you try to communicate something hundreds of times and it's not getting through, it isn't the recipient that is at fault.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#583

Post by eximius »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #493
js2 wrote: post #445

A lot of folks are misinterpreting this article, or just using it as a jumping off point to get something off their chest. This article is not literally about the dirty dish. It's not even about compromise. Rather, the article is really about having healthy communication with your partner. The author's wife was trying to communicate to him: "when you do X, I feel like Y, and it hurts me." But he wasn't hearing it. No…

Thanks for writing this. I have a question for you, since my marriage ended for reasons similar to this author's. Why is the wife's desire more important than his? In other words, why must the husband live the way the wife wants and compromise is not acceptable (especially if they share cleaning responsibilities) -- compromise could look like "sometimes I do it her way, sometimes I do it my way." Why can't a partner…

First, there are no absolutes here.

Second, its can often be about preference weights. If A cares heavily about something, and B doesnt have a strong preference, then perhaps B should take A's preference into account.

Now, should A have a strong preference for a trivial thing? Maybe not. But that doesnt change anyone's preferences and only breeds resentment.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#584

Post by op00to »

usefulcat wrote: post #542
cycomanic wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The communication strategy that saved our relationship is not to talk about what the other does or doesn't do, but instead talk about how some things make you feel. For example: "when there is a glass on the sink I feel like I'm feeling undervalued..." the other than needs to first acknowledge how the other feels "I hear that you feel undervalued..." before giving their argument. It sounds very formulaic but it reall…

This is good advice. I would only add that it can sometimes be difficult for a person to know how they are feeling or why. You have to know how you're feeling before you can meaningfully express yourself as "when you do X I feel Y".

Yes, that's where people must take personal responsibility for their own happiness and put the work in to understand and master their emotions. It's silly to assume that everyone is just born able to effectively manage emotions.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#585

Post by gamesbrainiac »

xyzzyz wrote: post #384
MrFantastic wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ironic to me when women choose successful ambitious men to marry and then complain these same keep striving to climb up the corporate ranks.

Marrying a successful and ambitious 20-something in no way commits one to be fine with the same ambitious person uprooting family’s life a decade or two later and moving to the other side of the world. Family is about shared sacrifice for its well being, and sometimes (in fact, usually) one needs to sacrifice their career for the family. That’s life.

I can share the converse example. My uncle had a once in a lifetime opportunity to get training in the US and get a promotion at his company. His wife did not want him to leave for 6 months. He did not get the training or the promotion. He fell way behind his colleagues that did. Fast forward 20 years, and he was unable to give his children a good education, whereas his colleagues who got promoted, did.

He gets really sad and jaded when he talks about that decision.

I put this real-life story in contrast, just to prove that it's not just about "Always listen to your wife, she is always reasonable". For the trivial stuff like putting away your shoes or your socks, fine. But some decisions make a career and determine the future success of your offspring.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#586

Post by [deleted] »

rout39574 wrote: post #523
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for writing this. I have a question for you, since my marriage ended for reasons similar to this author's. Why is the wife's desire more important than his? In other words, why must the husband live the way the wife wants and compromise is not acceptable (especially if they share cleaning responsibilities) -- compromise could look like "sometimes I do it her way, sometimes I do it my way." Why can't a partner…

Translated into a slightly different venue: if partner A's sense of order is jarred by laundry near, and not in, hamper, but partner B just doesn't care, then the steady state is A always cleaning up after B. A's happiness depends on a certain degree of order in the shared space, and B is oblivious to that degree of order. Or more likely, it requires a conscious exercise of effort to perceive the degree of order. If…

[deleted]

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#587

Post by msrenee »

dijonman2 wrote: post #397
ksdale wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marrying a successful, ambitious man does not, in any way, mean that a woman should defer completely to every single career decision a man makes. I'm sure this executive's schedule was already plenty demanding without the burden of moving to another country.

If the man is providing for the household then I’d argue that the woman should make every reasonable effort to support her husband. Everything changes all the time without exception. Getting used to change serves everyone.

Why do you assume the wife isn't working as well?

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#588

Post by op00to »

LegitShady wrote: post #84
NortySpock wrote: post #48

"Is this hill worth dieing on?" is a question I occasionally ask myself. Other ways to put it: "Would taking 10 seconds to do this now make my wife 1% less stressed?" (If so, do the thing to make her less stressed.) "Is it worth starting a fight vs spending the same time just fixing the problem?" "Would spending $COST_OF_THING make my wife happy for a day / make a fond memory of us together?" (Hence why I encourage m…

> "Would taking 10 seconds to do this now make my wife 1% less stressed?" An addition to this unrelated to marriage - if it takes 10 seconds, why isn't it already done instead of considering whether to do it or not? I have a personal rule that unless I have another issue that requires attention right now (like working from home being work time, etc) If it take 5 minutes or less to do it I just do it right away and ne…

That works for you. I prefer to plan and psych myself up for this stuff. Don't expect everyone to want to handle household tasks exactly on your schedule.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#589

Post by nradov »

jimkleiber wrote: post #477
beckler wrote: post #243

About 10 years ago, I had a internship at Newell Rubbermaid. As part of the experience, the entire group of interns across all the brands got to have lunch with the CEO and basically ask him anything we wanted. At some point, someone asked about his biggest regret. We all expected some business blunder, but he said that he was offered an executive position by Kraft to lead their Asian segment, and that his wife reall…

I appreciate you sharing this. Reminds me of a class I took at the University of Illinois, it was a seminar in entrepreneurship for engineers, if I remember correctly. I believe a CEO of a $100M+ company came in and gave a speech. His first slide had a PowerPoint, on which he put something like, "3...2...1." Then he said, "3 wives, 2 divorces, and 1 heart attack. That's the real cost of entrepreneurship." I've rememb…

Mark Cuban had a different perspective when he was younger.

“I went through girlfriends (who threatened) — ‘It is your business or me,'” the Shark Tank investor recalled. “And I was like — ‘What is your name again?’ It was just non-stop.”

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/shark-tank-star-mar...

I'm not endorsing that comment. I just thought it was interesting to see how a notable entrepreneur approached relationships. He did later get married after achieving financial success, and presumably knows his wife's name.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#590

Post by waferthin »

When I flatted back in the day, it became apparent that different people have different 'cleanliness thresholds' and that too high or too low compared to everyone else was going to be bad news. Luckily my wife and I have similar levels, and neither of us would see a glass by the dishwasher as some morbid sign of a lack of love. But lots of people would and do apparently, and I'm not surprised.
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