A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem • Hacker News Board

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#531

Post by zrail » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 9:35 PM UTC

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #493

js2 wrote: post #445

A lot of folks are misinterpreting this article, or just using it as a jumping off point to get something off their chest. This article is not literally about the dirty dish. It's not even about compromise. Rather, the article is really about having healthy communication with your partner. The author's wife was trying to communicate to him: "when you do X, I feel like Y, and it hurts me." But he wasn't hearing it. No…

Thanks for writing this. I have a question for you, since my marriage ended for reasons similar to this author's. Why is the wife's desire more important than his? In other words, why must the husband live the way the wife wants and compromise is not acceptable (especially if they share cleaning responsibilities) -- compromise could look like "sometimes I do it her way, sometimes I do it my way." Why can't a partner…

When you're hurting someone it's on you to stop before they decide they've had enough. After that you can work with them to get what you want in a way that makes sense for you both. Compromise always comes after harm reduction.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#532

Post by ay » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 9:36 PM UTC

em-bee wrote: post #88

ay wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest takeaway is you can never really “insist on getting it fixed” without the damage to the relationship. You can state how it is important to you, explain why, and hope that the partner initiates the change to themselves. There is a subtle difference between the two; “push” vs “pull”, if you will.

what needs to be fixed is the disagreement itself. it doesn't matter how the issue in question gets fixed, but you need to come to an amicable solution. this is only possible if both partners respect and care for each other and are willing to listen and support each others needs. in the article when the author says that he'd want to agree to disagree he was not respecting his wife. he was basically saying: you are wr…

I frame it as “the perception of fairness in the relationship”.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#533

Post by joyeuse6701 » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 9:39 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #508

jimkleiber wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate you sharing this. Reminds me of a class I took at the University of Illinois, it was a seminar in entrepreneurship for engineers, if I remember correctly. I believe a CEO of a $100M+ company came in and gave a speech. His first slide had a PowerPoint, on which he put something like, "3...2...1." Then he said, "3 wives, 2 divorces, and 1 heart attack. That's the real cost of entrepreneurship." I've rememb…

a CEO of a $100M+ company came in and gave a speech. His first slide had a PowerPoint, on which he put something like, "3...2...1." Then he said, "3 wives, 2 divorces, and 1 heart attack. That's the real cost of entrepreneurship." Plenty of people who were never entrepreneurs suffer the same or worse.. and do so while earning a tiny pittance of what CEOs make. Lack of money causes all sorts of additional stress on fa…

Yeah but the (insert suffering in group) had it tougher than (out group). We can always compare and find someone or something that has it worse. What’s the point in bringing it up, that we can’t feel sorry for someone who has suffered because someone else has perhaps suffered more in our estimation?

No one has nor should have a monopoly on sympathy.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#534

Post by usefulcat » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 9:39 PM UTC

jayski wrote: post #24

Im 99% sure the wife in this story used the glass as an excuse to get out. If youre happy with the life youve built together and love your partner theres no way you leave it over something like this. I dont buy the "it shows disrespect" argument. Shes going to be with somebody else in a years time. But when youre in a bad situation and the other person isn't giving you a good reason to leave sometimes you have to get…

> But when youre in a bad situation and the other person isn't giving you a good reason to leave sometimes you have to get creative.

Why is it necessary for the other person to give you a "good" reason to leave? Why not just be honest and say "this is not for me, I'm leaving"?

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#535

Post by Forgeties79 » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 9:39 PM UTC

Interesting. I remember reading this piece years ago about dirty dishes and divorce as well.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes...

Same concept more or less. Not saying the Atlantic lifted this, just funny to see “doing the dishes” at the core of another marriage discussion.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#536

Post by ay » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 9:42 PM UTC

notacoward wrote: post #187

ay wrote: post #8

It’s very simple. If something is minor for you but your partner prompts you extensively that it triggers them - change yourself. The willingness to listen and change yourself is what signals your love. Because everything else is much easier.

> If something is minor for you ... change yourself. On the one hand, I think this can lead to ruin in its own way. It cedes all ground to the most neurotic or controlling partner. It breeds resentment in the one who has to make all the concessions. Instead, I would suggest that these conflicts should be resolved explicitly and deliberately. Sometimes that will lead to one person reminding themselves to put the glass…

Absolutely agree with your caveats! I forgot to mention the “perception of fairness” that is another useful component to a long term balance. And - communication, communication, communication. Unfortunately the latter is often suppressed by the everyday pressures until it’s too late.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#537

Post by usefulcat » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 9:43 PM UTC

rajin444 wrote: post #82

jayski wrote: post #24

Im 99% sure the wife in this story used the glass as an excuse to get out. If youre happy with the life youve built together and love your partner theres no way you leave it over something like this. I dont buy the "it shows disrespect" argument. Shes going to be with somebody else in a years time. But when youre in a bad situation and the other person isn't giving you a good reason to leave sometimes you have to get…

Definitely this. The writer (and many commenters here) are missing a very important distinction. Changing yourself is good and healthy but only when you want to. Changing for somebody else is toxic and will not work. Marriage is a partnership, not a series of trade offs (in practice it will look like this, but it cannot be seen as this). Both sides should be grateful for the changes they make for one another as well…

There's a big difference between changing who you are and how you behave.

If a person considers being asked to put a dish in the dishwasher as an assault on their identity, they're certainly entitled to feel that way but they're probably also not well suited to marriage or any similar relationship.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#538

Post by gedy » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 9:44 PM UTC

rout39574 wrote: post #523

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for writing this. I have a question for you, since my marriage ended for reasons similar to this author's. Why is the wife's desire more important than his? In other words, why must the husband live the way the wife wants and compromise is not acceptable (especially if they share cleaning responsibilities) -- compromise could look like "sometimes I do it her way, sometimes I do it my way." Why can't a partner…

Translated into a slightly different venue: if partner A's sense of order is jarred by laundry near, and not in, hamper, but partner B just doesn't care, then the steady state is A always cleaning up after B. A's happiness depends on a certain degree of order in the shared space, and B is oblivious to that degree of order. Or more likely, it requires a conscious exercise of effort to perceive the degree of order. If…

> A always cleaning up after B.

(Married 20 years) there definitely needs to be awareness that A might just prioritize something before B gets to it. It's not that B would never do it or doesn't care. Everything is priorities. (I'm talking within the same day or two, not leaving for weeks on end of course.)

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#539

Post by TedDoesntTalk » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 9:47 PM UTC

gleenn wrote: post #527

yojo wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is unimportant to you, and important to her, then splitting the difference doesn’t mean doing it your way half the time. If it instead is important to both of you, then you have a fundamental problem that you need to sit down and work through. Maybe there is a compromise that will leave both of you happy. Maybe one of you is willing to try changing. Or maybe you have an irreconcilable difference and need to spl…

He did mention that he would never care to change his behavior and had two reasons to continue doing it. I guess that doesn't mean it's the hill he would go to die on. I do struggle with the same thing, at what point is it something that's no longer a conversation, you should just change because the other person decided they cared enough about it. Having the wife end a marriage over it also seems ridiculous. If peopl…

> If I just sit around and say everything is "important", does that mean I get to have it my way all the time?

This is my question, and i would like to hear from OP, married 33+ years, on his attitude about this.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#540

Post by captaincaveman » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 9:50 PM UTC

ay wrote: post #525

captaincaveman wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Change yourself', 'just be yourself', no one can decide what the duck to do! Do you keep changing yourself to meet their every whim, maybe they should just let it go, it's just a glass?

Why would you be with a person you aren’t willing to change yourself for ?

I'm not saying there shouldn't be flexibility, it's give and take, but there clearly should be some limits. So blanket advice of change what your doing to satisfy all minor complaints isn't great advice in my opinion.