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A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#451

Post by droopyEyelids »

incomingpain wrote: post #280
rhacker wrote: post #251

This is how I read this. The wife may have long ago brought up some argument that was "banned". In other words - bread winner conversations. Bread winners often have this trait: I make all the money, and I can only do that by working my butt off. So you need to take care of all the other things. No questions. This is why the dishes is such a huge deal now: Since the ACTUAL conversation is banned (by the man) the only…

I read this and feel like I'm the bad guy and I don't understand how. I'm the breadwinner. I pay 100% of the bills, excluding the 'I went to buy potato chips and ice cream' I WFH so I also tend to do the majority of chores. Which when I get burnt out or get sick I don't get as many chores done and the house goes to shit. Only ending up punishing myself really. I also have to 100% of the time decide what's for dinner…

not necessarily the bad guy but you absolutely have relationship issues and could benefit from counseling if you found a good marriage counselor

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#452

Post by watwut »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #203

My relationship just ended for mostly similar reasons (it wasn't just glasses in the sink, it was a few other things I did that she considered disrespectful that seemed minor to me) I was the only one working and paying for the apartment, her hobbies, and school, but things like the above would escalate into long arguments that I would ask to defer. The problem was, I would sometimes forget details that were importan…

> I might miss an entire day of work because of some minor thing that exploded into a 6 hour argument, while I was trying to disengage the whole time, but couldn't.

In this case, I would congratulate you for dodging the bullet. It seem to me, you was not the problem in that relationship.

I am even close to guess she was verbally abusive. And if not, then actually damaging to you.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#453

Post by watwut »

em-bee wrote: post #256
belval wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly from the description you give, I wouldn't assign blame but it was probably the right call to break it off. 6 hours arguments that need to happen right now are a pretty big red flag...

an unresolved argument (if it's a serious one) makes it difficult for me to focus on work. (as a programmer and sysadmin, being distracted can be dangerous) if it happens in the evening i also can't sleep. so either way the day is ruined. the solution then is obviously to learn to resolve arguments in a short time. actually, resolving the argument itself is not even the issue, but knowing that we still love each othe…

When this sentiment leads to 6 hour long argument and partner missing work because of it, then it is beyond healthy need to finish argument.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#454

Post by [deleted] »

lazide wrote: post #440
willcipriano wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience it's always about what I'm talking about. My wife often refuses to clean up after herself, I tell her "Please pick up the iced tea bottles you left on the floor" and she goes into a rant about one time 5 years ago when I didn't pick up a something and engages in lots of deflection. Then she says stuff like you said "Your just upset that you have a meeting at work", when really it's I'd like to not pi…

Uh, pretty clear her behavior is exactly what I’m referring to, and yours may be too? If you think the behavior you described is just about a couple iced tea bottles, that is… not likely to go well long term in my experience. I hope I’m wrong for you though! And the statement you’re making there seems to have a tone of resentment towards her which, unfortunately, is going to likely be a problem too.

[deleted]

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#455

Post by HelloMcFly »

dijonman2 wrote: post #397
ksdale wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marrying a successful, ambitious man does not, in any way, mean that a woman should defer completely to every single career decision a man makes. I'm sure this executive's schedule was already plenty demanding without the burden of moving to another country.

If the man is providing for the household then I’d argue that the woman should make every reasonable effort to support her husband. Everything changes all the time without exception. Getting used to change serves everyone.

Supporting one's spouse does not mean acquiescing to every opportunity afforded the other. Things are a little different when we're talking about matters of shelter/food/health, but in this situation we're talking about an international relocation of an already successful businessman. He was pursuing personal career and experience outcomes, he wasn't trying to drag his family above the poverty line.

And besides, it's pretty clear HE regrets the decision. Maybe learn something from the person who lived the experience.

> Everything changes all the time without exception. Getting used to change serves everyone.

This statement is meaningless. Change in life is constant, but everything doesn't change all the time. You weaponize this statement as if to say we - or at least one spouse - should abdicate their agency in their own or their shared life.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#456

Post by jb3689 »

kapral18 wrote: post #326
pcthrowaway wrote: post #203

My relationship just ended for mostly similar reasons (it wasn't just glasses in the sink, it was a few other things I did that she considered disrespectful that seemed minor to me) I was the only one working and paying for the apartment, her hobbies, and school, but things like the above would escalate into long arguments that I would ask to defer. The problem was, I would sometimes forget details that were importan…

When you are the only one paying for apartment, hobbies and school, since those "minor" things are out of her mind she has all the time and energy to ngaf about it and bloat her ego, manipulate and gaslight you into thinking you are not good enough boyfriend... husband... father... These are classic manipulation tricks of narcissists. And the fact that she allows herself to engage in a 6 hour argument during workdays…

> When you are the only one paying for apartment, hobbies and school

There are two sides to every story. I could say that this is what my wife and I do (because it is what we do), but it is out of convenience and the fact that I'm privileged enough to be able support both of us. It would be technically correct for me to say "I pay for your housing", but doing so would be weaponizing it unnecessarily. In our case we could split everything 50:50 too, we just explicitly choose not to because it's burdensome. I can't now use that against her whenever I want to.

I'm not saying this is OP's situation, but that it is an alternative possible read of the situation given the tiny fraction of detail we've been given.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#457

Post by adhesive_wombat »

glitchc wrote: post #261
rhacker wrote: post #251

This is how I read this. The wife may have long ago brought up some argument that was "banned". In other words - bread winner conversations. Bread winners often have this trait: I make all the money, and I can only do that by working my butt off. So you need to take care of all the other things. No questions. This is why the dishes is such a huge deal now: Since the ACTUAL conversation is banned (by the man) the only…

Yup, a lot of these dissolutions are over money and control of the finances. Breadwinners need to treat their stay-at-homes with nice dinners, shopping experiences and pocket money that feels reasonable. A lot of them get it wrong. It’s all about dignity and respect really. Take that away from your partner and they’ll resent you, no matter how much pove there is between the two of you.

It does go both ways, however. Just as the "breadwinner" doesn't get to use their money to diminish the (very substantial) labor of the other at home, the other doesn't get to use their labour to assert complete dominance over how the shared house is used.

It's teamwork. Having two warring departments in a company is bad news, so is two adversarial government agencies: there's a common goal at stake. It's no different at home.

If you were on a sports team, you'd think carefully about how a teammate wants the ball, and they'll think about how they can make it easy to set up for you to execute that pass. Making a hospital pass doesn't make either of you look better, and doesn't win the game.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#458

Post by watwut »

j7ake wrote: post #316
rhacker wrote: post #251

This is how I read this. The wife may have long ago brought up some argument that was "banned". In other words - bread winner conversations. Bread winners often have this trait: I make all the money, and I can only do that by working my butt off. So you need to take care of all the other things. No questions. This is why the dishes is such a huge deal now: Since the ACTUAL conversation is banned (by the man) the only…

Would this situation have been solved if both partners were working ?

Is there reason to think they were not? I tried to find where in article he says she was stay at home mom and can't find it.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#459

Post by watwut »

krona wrote: post #246
cloudier wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. If you intend to throw a ball to your dog but accidentally break a vase as a result, does your original intention absolve you from the consequences of your actions?

As though the thoughts and feelings of another person are as predictable and consequential as the laws of physics. I wish.

If someone complains a lot and often and typically about same set of thing, it is pretty easy to guess they are annoyed about that set of things. They feelings are no mystery, they feel bad about thing they complain about.

The unpredictable thing here were consequences - that she will act at her feelings eventually instead of just experiencing them. And it basically what he writes about in the article, that she eventually figured out her feelings don't matter to him and interpreted situation as such. And then it was too late to fix anything.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#460

Post by nineplay »

dijonman2 wrote: post #397
ksdale wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marrying a successful, ambitious man does not, in any way, mean that a woman should defer completely to every single career decision a man makes. I'm sure this executive's schedule was already plenty demanding without the burden of moving to another country.

If the man is providing for the household then I’d argue that the woman should make every reasonable effort to support her husband. Everything changes all the time without exception. Getting used to change serves everyone.

She's providing for the household by taking care of everything in their lives outside of his specific business functions.

He should be making every reasonable effort to support her.

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