This reads really pathetic to me. If that's really why she left and not simply that she found a higher value male or something that's just plain crazy and she's doing him a favor.
A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem
371–380 of 812 posts
Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem
#372Earlier quoted context omitted.
an unresolved argument (if it's a serious one) makes it difficult for me to focus on work. (as a programmer and sysadmin, being distracted can be dangerous) if it happens in the evening i also can't sleep. so either way the day is ruined. the solution then is obviously to learn to resolve arguments in a short time. actually, resolving the argument itself is not even the issue, but knowing that we still love each othe…
I am very much the same on that part, it's hard to do great work when you are emotionally all over the place.
Other people are able to compartmentalize and put it off until later while going about their day. Having one of each in a disagreement is like adding fuel to the fire as both people get angrier that of the other is not accommodating their approach,and it becomes a much bigger thing. "Let's fix this now so I can do work" vs "Let's fix it later, so I can do my work".
Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem
#373Earlier quoted context omitted.
No she doesn't. She can just leave it there. She can leave her own glasses there, too. I'm having a hard time following the logic here. You agree that at some point someone has to do the dishes, correct? We can assume based on the article that the wife is the one doing the dishes. So, that means every time the husband leaves dishes out he is making more work for his wife than if he just put his dishes in the dishwash…
I think the logic here is that it does not: A) Need to be done now B) Need to be done by the husband C) A & B If it's just a water glass, I'd not be surprised if the husband intends to (or would) reuse it from its position on the counter, hence the entire dishwasher->cupboard cycle is superfluous from the husband's point of view.
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Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
Any source for US or other developed countries? And of course the dual income is important too. Of course in developing nations or other scenarios with stay at home women will see them doing more unpaid work. I'd imagine it's similar for a brief time in developed countries when women leave the workforce to have children too. At least in my experience it seems division of overall labor is generally equal for the relat…
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/09/24/among-u-s-c... https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/01/25/for-america... https://news.gallup.com/poll/283979/women-handle-main-househ... Anecdotally, I have a fairly progressive friend circle and I still think, between talking to different halves of a given hetero couple, it seems like the man tends to exaggerate how much he does around the house, how much childc…
So, for link number one... I guess we have to define if we are measuring work by hours or by tasks completed. It's possible that some of those men are cooking as many meals but that they spend less time doing it. Secondly, and more importantly, that article is about only a single area. I want to see overall breakdown of all the work/chores. The article hints at women working fewer paid hours. That's an area that should be more thoroughly investigated, as whoever is working fewer hours at a job is more likely to be doing more chores to contribute equally.
For the second article, it seems to be self-reported perceptions and not actual measurements. Again, it only deals with limited categories. Of course if we are looking at chores that are traditionally "women's work", some of that bias may carry over. Likewise, handyman work, appliance repair, mechanic work, paperwork, yard work, etc that are traditionally "men's work" are likely to still have more men than women saying they spend more time on that.
The third article is more what I was looking for. It's still perception based but it takes into account a wider array of tasks. It also shows how working status and income play a role. It also backs up my theory that the bias extends the other way on the traditional "men's work" portions.
So we aren't going to see that grey line hit 100% in every category, and for good reason. Specialization of labor leads to efficiency. So task assignment or self-assignemnt will go to the person who is more interested in or better at that task. I would have liked to see an overall category to see how close the overall chore and work breakdown would be to 50/50. That's really the meat of the issue - equally contributing, even if the underlying tasks are divied up. Otherwise, we can cherry pick tasks like mechanic work or dishes to fit whatever narrative we want.
Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is an interesting point of view. I don't know enough about their relationship to know whether that's what was going on. But, I do want to point out something else in your comment: > She now has to wash and put away the glass. No she doesn't. She can just leave it there. She can leave her own glasses there, too. The pressure to keep the counter clean isn't coming from the husband. He doesn't give a damn how many…
> It's coming from an expectation of femininity that she's internalized. This is a sexist assumption which denies the woman individual agency. One person in a relationship having a higher standard for cleanliness than the other isn’t necessarily the result of some society-wide conditioning. There are plenty of very tidy men and more relaxed women out there in the wide world. And plenty of relationships where both par…
I've never heard of men complaining about their female partners being untidy with household things except in the case where they simply do nothing (and that's rare), is that common where you are.
My father did all the washing up in our house growing up, and mum did most of the cooking, but he never once annotated me for leaving dirty dishes whilst my mother regularly would complain.
Almost every married woman I know fits the stereotype of being more houseproud than their husbands (I'm in the UK).
You call it sexist, but it seems to reflect a genuine sex-based divide.
Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's unfortunate is that I can literally emphasize the words on average and use words like generally and still get the accusation that boils down to, "but not everyone is like that." If you think my opinion is useless, the most likely reason is because you have little to no experience with the topic. Are you in your 40s? How many 47 year old women have you dated?
Well, I'm within a year or so of being forty. I've have been on about 75 dates over the last two years with women aged 29 to 50s. IME, often the desirable ladies in their forties have been those who stayed in a dead end relationship for (way) too long. If someone has never been in an LTR by the time they're 35, they were always quite odd and I learned it's a good idea to double click and ask questions to learn what m…
Well, I'm within a year or so of being forty. I've have been on about 75 dates over the last two years with women aged 29 to 50s.
Huh, the first version of this comment before you edited it said:
Yes I'm in my forties, have been on dates over the last two years with about 50 women aged 29 to 50
Another comment from you in this same story says:
Soon I should probably ask if she'll marry me, advice on this would be welcome :) we are 9 months in
Congratulations on dating about 50, I mean about 75 women in about 15 months. Also congratulations on regressing in age!
Since you explicitly solicited advice in your other comment - I think a man in his 40s (or almost 40) would be insane to propose marriage to a woman he's dated for 9 months.
Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem
#377Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your comment reminds me of the following. My wife and I have been married over 30 years now. Our total household is 7 persons. A couple years ago, my wife was complaining once again about someone using scissors and not bringing them back to their proper storage place. "How can we have 3 pair of scissors and none of them are here when I need to use one?" This didn't bother me but hearing her complain about it did both…
Yet the solution to many relationship problems isn't finding a solution! I'm a sysadmin. When I see a problem, I try to fix it, and prevent it from happening again. But relationships aren't servers. Sometimes we see (or are told about) a problem, and immediately go to fix it. Yet often the problem isn't what we see. Usually (maybe 99% of the time) problems in relationships are about communication. Listening. Commiser…
I had exactly the same discussion with my wife and I am gonna strongly disagree here.
It's a two way street, yes I need to be open to the possibility of this being a 'venting' conversation where she is looking only for support. However, she also needs to be aware that it is my natural inclination to look for 'solutions' and that social cues are not my forte.
So it is also part of the meet me half-way that she clearly _says_ (not hints) at the start that she is not looking for solutions but is just sharing/venting.
I think one of biggest breakthroughs in our relationship was watching the play "Defending the Caveman" together. It suddenly put into words everything I was somehow unable to express in how differently we perceive/process reality.
Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem
#378The most important marriage lesson is: don’t get married. The person you marry is not the person you divorce. You can lose a huge amount of money battling it out even if YOU bend over backwards to be reasonable. If you want to flip a coin to see if you lose ten years of earnings, then marriage is for you.
It's worth it though. Consider the single male life. You will have no friends, because your male friends will all get wives and girlfriends, who will dissuade them from hanging out with you, the weird bachelor. You will be seen as weird at work because all of your coworkers will be married, and people don't like an outlier.
So the cost is high, so what? You could get divorced, lose half of everything you own, and have to pay ((your salary) - (her salary)) for the rest of your life. But what's the point of money if not to buy experiences?
Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. I am on the other side of this in my marriage — my wife leaves her water glass out (sometimes for days) because she “might want to use it again”. It bothered me, so I put it in the dishwasher. She didn’t like that, so I stopped doing it. And I got over the fact that there are sometimes six or seven half-full glasses around the house at any time, because I am not a petty psychotic who would take something so…
My wife put some water in the microwave for tea and left the room. When it was done, I put the tea ball in it and set the timer for her. Thinking that she would be back in the room in a few minutes and the timer would let her know it was ready. Instead of thank you for starting her tea, I was told I was "too controlling". Ok... I guess I won't do nice random things like start your tea from now on.
Just brainstorming here, but perhaps it was tea that she wanted to prepare herself, and the problem may have been that you "muscled your way into" a course of action that she wanted to be hers.
Your analysis of the situation is problematic when you write: "I guess I won't do nice random things like start your tea from now on." It was your wife who started the tea-making process, not you. To somebody who already feels sore about this kind of thing, it may feel as if you're taking credit for her action.
Of course, normal people in a normal situation don't react in the way that your wife did. As others pointed out, there are almost certainly more issues in your relationship and your wife likely reacted this way because your behavior fit into a larger pattern that she is unhappy with.
Also please note, you absolutely cannot draw the conclusion that she doesn't want you to do nice things for her in general.
Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
No she doesn't. She can just leave it there. She can leave her own glasses there, too. I'm having a hard time following the logic here. You agree that at some point someone has to do the dishes, correct? We can assume based on the article that the wife is the one doing the dishes. So, that means every time the husband leaves dishes out he is making more work for his wife than if he just put his dishes in the dishwash…
I think the logic here is that it does not: A) Need to be done now B) Need to be done by the husband C) A & B If it's just a water glass, I'd not be surprised if the husband intends to (or would) reuse it from its position on the counter, hence the entire dishwasher->cupboard cycle is superfluous from the husband's point of view.
> I'd not be surprised if the husband intends to (or would) reuse it from its position on the counter, hence the entire dishwasher->cupboard cycle is superfluous from the husband's point of view.
Indeed. From the article:
> I might want to use it again.
I can tell you for a fact my dishwasher would run a whole lot less than 1/2 the time it does now, if I lived alone. Like, 1/4 as much. And that's just considering the wife, not the kids, like my usage solo vs. us before we had kids, and that's despite some things (dirty pots and pans) taking up more than 1/2 as much space as they do with two people. And it's not because I'd be doing more thorough hand-washing—I'd be doing a lot more re-using with a quick wipe, or maybe a brief run under the water, or even nothing at all (for, say, water cups). And yes, of course they'd stay on the counter (in the sink they'd get too gross to re-use, and they'd be in the way).