Live data from Hacker News

Apple unveils the best photos from the Shot on iPhone Macro Challenge

apple.com

81–90 of 165 posts

Re: Apple unveils the best photos from the Shot on iPhone Macro Challenge

#81

The trick to getting the best out of camera phones is to shore up their weaknesses with external devices. Cell phone cameras are multiple stops slower than "real" cameras (i.e. they take in 1/4 to 1/8th as much light). So you add light to the scene to shore up that weakness. Most of these pictures were probably lit very carefully with high quality lights, or else were taken in bright daylight, and the phone was proba…

I disagree that bigger cameras are better for macrophotography. I say this because of the physics of how light works in macrophotography, which matches my experience doing macrophotography with larger cameras (6x7cm and 4x5"). The long story short is that reducing the aperture has two effects on image sharpness. Smaller apertures increase the depth of field, bringing more of your scene into focus. Smaller apertures a…

I appreciate your perspective, but most folks who are at the top of the macrophotography game use 35mm cameras and macro lenses. It's not actually the case that smaller sensors are net beneficial for taking macro photographs, otherwise we'd see a different trend. Even if these folks were just looking for the "real camera" ergonomics, they'd be using m43, but few of them do. (Perhaps you get some advantage of more depth of field, but 35mm camera lenses can be stopped down to achieve the same effect, when it is desired.)

There are exceptions, as my sibling comment points out, but if you go to a list of the top macro photographers and check each one out, 90+% of them will be using 35mm cameras.

Re: Apple unveils the best photos from the Shot on iPhone Macro Challenge

#82
The iPhone's macro photography is best for the fact that I can take pictures of labels and stuff for later. Something that was made for pretty stuff that nonetheless works quite well for my mundane use-case. I love technology like this.

Re: Apple unveils the best photos from the Shot on iPhone Macro Challenge

#83
post #56
post #16

People seem to always be impressed with close-up images of plants.

Humans can learn a lot from observing the world around them. We do this a lot as kids. So maybe seeing up-close details we either can't see with the naked eye or never payed attention before can be interesting. At least to me, it feels to add completeness to my observation of what nature is capable of, and this enhances my conception of how much I was missing and it is now "complete" to me.

Agree with this.

My children are so close to the ground they can observe things I just walk by. They are constantly pointing out to me things they find beautiful in their tiny details. Admittedly I've trained them to be highly observant but they've outdone me in a short time.

Re: Apple unveils the best photos from the Shot on iPhone Macro Challenge

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great advice. It would be fun to see a behind-the-scenes of how some of these photos were taken > But you'd probably have an easier time of it on a five year old aps-c camera with a macro lens, to say nothing of modern 35mm cameras. The iPhone camera really is fantastic for what it is (economies of scale are an amazing thing) but you're not wrong. Doing this sort of photography work on an iPhone is more about the cha…

This is even true for digital gear. At base ISO, cameras like a D7100/7200 have as good image quality as it gets for that class, and you can pick those up for cheap. Even fairly high-end, high-resolution full-frame cameras can be had for less than 500 quid (e.g. D800) and those still have outstanding image quality; there really wasn't a whole lot of major improvements in image quality in the last ten years when you c…

Not even necessarily – the Sony a6300 retails around 300 bucks used, which gives you 4K30 or 2K120 video at 8bit. It’s an APS-C mirrorless with fast AF, and its low-noise performance is (although a few years out of date) excellent for its price.

And in real-life circumstances it’s better than a Google Pixel.

Re: Apple unveils the best photos from the Shot on iPhone Macro Challenge

#85
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a meta-comment, but your reply was really good until the last sentence. > Sounds like you need some more research into macrophotography That undermined your otherwise very factual rebuttal/clarification because it seems like at best an impossible standard (everybody could always use more research into anything), and at worst a "you don't know as much as me" veiled in professionalism/passive aggressiveness. The i…

I know you think what you're doing is "elevating" conversations, but ... "calling out" people for the slightest bit of negativity is an extremely toxic behavior. Quality discourse requires negativity and fosters a healthy span of tolerance for it. Your interpretation is also very narrow and passive aggressive itself, to me it seems completely neutral that in a case when someone has a strong opinion based on ignorance…

Disagree. Attack the arguments, not the person.

Why did that person feel the need to attack the poster? What did they gain from it? How did it help the argument?

I don't think there's a single benefit from that line other than to be self-serving statement that says "i know more than you" when their rebuttal did that more effectively while staying on topic.

Re: Apple unveils the best photos from the Shot on iPhone Macro Challenge

#86

Pretty crazy that you can get this kind of shots with a mobile tbh. Until very recently you would require a DSLR with a bulky specialized lens. For reference this is what a typical macro lens looks like https://images.app.goo.gl/nf5keSiugxyb2pmA6

A $20 extension tube or reversing ring will turn even any plain 50mm prime into a fine macro lens. There really isn’t an upper limit on lens hugeness or cost for people chasing that last 1% of performance.

I bought a cheap DSLR extension tube and a $15 ring light on eBay to do macro photography of electronic components. They work much better than I expected for the price. I'm sure an expensive macro lens would be better but this setup works fine for me.

Re: Apple unveils the best photos from the Shot on iPhone Macro Challenge

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Macro photography requires extra light, it's not just anything to do specific to cell phones. That's why there are so many flash rigs designed for this. Also, the iPhone 13 camera has ridiculously fast lenses[0]: Pro 12MP camera system: Telephoto, Wide, and Ultra Wide cameras Telephoto: ƒ/2.8 aperture Wide: ƒ/1.5 aperture Ultra Wide: ƒ/1.8 aperture and 120° field of view If you search for lenses for "real" camera…

Just a meta-comment, but your reply was really good until the last sentence. > Sounds like you need some more research into macrophotography That undermined your otherwise very factual rebuttal/clarification because it seems like at best an impossible standard (everybody could always use more research into anything), and at worst a "you don't know as much as me" veiled in professionalism/passive aggressiveness. The i…

It really depends on the purposes of the comment.

Direct responses can be intended to educate the person they are responding to, but they can also be intended to warn people around.

Does this person want to get a point across with empathy or do they want to discredit the comment to future readers to avoid the circulation of false information?

Re: Apple unveils the best photos from the Shot on iPhone Macro Challenge

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that bigger cameras are better for macrophotography. I say this because of the physics of how light works in macrophotography, which matches my experience doing macrophotography with larger cameras (6x7cm and 4x5"). The long story short is that reducing the aperture has two effects on image sharpness. Smaller apertures increase the depth of field, bringing more of your scene into focus. Smaller apertures a…

I appreciate your perspective, but most folks who are at the top of the macrophotography game use 35mm cameras and macro lenses. It's not actually the case that smaller sensors are net beneficial for taking macro photographs, otherwise we'd see a different trend. Even if these folks were just looking for the "real camera" ergonomics, they'd be using m43, but few of them do. (Perhaps you get some advantage of more dep…

People use the equipment they like with good ergonomics—equipment they are familiar with. Very few people understand their equipment well enough and understand the physics well enough to justify their choices from a purely technical image-quality standpoint, and very few people actually try out different equipment to see what the results are (which might cost thousands of dollars, just for starters).

Instead, most people come up with all sorts of justifications for why their equipment is the best. And that’s ok. In the end, photographers take good pictures and we are happy. There is no underlying need for photographers to use the “best” equipment available to them, and in actual practice, you will find photos in galleries taken using a camera phone or a cheap plastic Holga, hung right next to pictures taken on a 4x5" that look immaculate.

> Perhaps you get some advantage of more depth of field, but 35mm camera lenses can be stopped down to achieve the same effect, when it is desired.

The premise I’m operating under is that you’ll make, more or less, the same artistic choices with different equipment. In other words, if you shoot micro four thirds and switch to 35mm, you double the ƒ-number (e.g. go from ƒ/11 to ƒ/22), get roughly the same depth of field, roughly the same field of view, roughly the same image sharpness.

There are two problems here. One problem is that the image is not particularly sharp to begin with, so any extra resolution provided by a better sensor is wasted. The second problem is that larger lenses are operated farther from their ideal focal distances.

The formula for focal distance of an ideal lens is

1/ƒ = 1/d1 + 1/d2,

where ƒ is the focal length, d1 is the subject distance, and d2 is the distance to the image. Normally, d1 >> d2, and you can consider a 50mm lens on a 35mm camera as the same as a 25mm lens on micro four thirds. For macrophotography, d1 ≈ d2, and changing the sensor size has a radical impact on how far a lens must be moved to remain in focus in relative terms. That is, when you double the sensor size, you have to more than double the distance you move the lens.

This means that larger lenses are operating farther outside their ideal focal distances, and this has a negative impact on image sharpness. Macro lenses are specifically designed to be operated in this range, but the fact remains, larger lenses are still operating in a more extreme regime compared to smaller lenses.

You get pretty good results by just copying what most people use, but the fact than 90+% of people are using equipment X does not mean that equipment X is ideal. Plenty of musicians have completely incorrect notions about what kind of impact various choices they make about their gear has on how they sound, too—these beliefs often completely fail to hold up under any reasonable amount of scrutiny.

Photographers commonly believe that larger lenses take better pictures. Reality is more complicated—there are a ton of tradeoffs both with lens design from a practical perspective and tradeoffs involving the underlying physics that make the situation much more complicated.

Re: Apple unveils the best photos from the Shot on iPhone Macro Challenge

#89

The trick to getting the best out of camera phones is to shore up their weaknesses with external devices. Cell phone cameras are multiple stops slower than "real" cameras (i.e. they take in 1/4 to 1/8th as much light). So you add light to the scene to shore up that weakness. Most of these pictures were probably lit very carefully with high quality lights, or else were taken in bright daylight, and the phone was proba…

> It's pretty cool that you can get such nice results from a phone. But you'd probably have an easier time of it on a five year old aps-c camera with a macro lens, to say nothing of modern 35mm cameras.

Sure, but how often do you have them on your person in time to take candid photos?

I am in a lot of entomology and myrmecology online groups and people are able to take clear photos of insects that look like professional macro photos using their phones. Before that, only a handful of pro/powerusers were able to share this kind of quality.

When asked what camera he used, one popular youtuber (I cannot remember the exact context) explained that while expensive cameras are better on paper he often relies on his iPhone + a cheap ring light clipped on it. Animals often act in interesting ways when you are not ready for it. The ease of using the device that is in your pocket often outweight the potential increase in quality that would come from setting up a studio level setup. The best picture is the one you are able to take.

Re: Apple unveils the best photos from the Shot on iPhone Macro Challenge

#90

The trick to getting the best out of camera phones is to shore up their weaknesses with external devices. Cell phone cameras are multiple stops slower than "real" cameras (i.e. they take in 1/4 to 1/8th as much light). So you add light to the scene to shore up that weakness. Most of these pictures were probably lit very carefully with high quality lights, or else were taken in bright daylight, and the phone was proba…

> (i.e. they take in 1/4 to 1/8th as much light)

Not sure if this is true for macro. For a given angle of view, the amount of light collected is determined by the absolute diameter of the aperture (as opposed to the f number). It’s rarely practical to use a very wide aperture for macro photography on a DSLR for depth of field reasons. People do all sorts of unnecessarily complex calculations with crop factors, but in this scenario all you have to think about is the diameter of the aperture in mm. The phone has an aperture of perhaps around 3-4mm. You’re unlikely to use a wider aperture than that shooting macro on APS-C or full frame.

Post reply on HN