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Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

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Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#101

Post by tabokie »

thfuran wrote: post #56
tabokie wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you mentioned. Those satellite images are jokes to most Chinese people. In fact, the western media's coverage of Xinjiang has demonstrated your hypocrisy to those of us who didn't know it before. After this, I think it's safe to say that western mainstream media has lost its credibility in China. Some of us (not me) don't even believe Bucha massacre, just because we heard it from your mouths. Just for your c…

>Those satellite images are jokes to most Chinese people. Why? >In fact, the western media's coverage of Xinjiang has demonstrated your hypocrisy to those of us who didn't know it before. How so?

For the first question, most of us choose to believe our fellow citizens (who can easily travel to the regions highlighted in those satellite images) over western reporters. Plus the criminal acts described in western media sound more like US's doing rather than what we could picture our public officials.

The second one is more complicated. Our public consensus is, we *need* to apply some policies in Xinjing that can seem more "restraining" than the rest of China. It's because the west has chosen Xinjiang as one of its handles of infiltration. Historically, several major armed riots have happened in this area. Hundreds if not more Han (the majority ethnic group) civilians were killed.

Also there is this sanction on Xinjiang cotton. We all know how small Xinjiang's economy is within China. The sanction only does harm to Xinjiang's people than it influenced those policies. And yes, it is such a typical western propaganda tool that is drenched with consumerism.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#102

Post by danielheath »

cabirum wrote: post #90
plouffy wrote: post #8

Holly molly, the whatsaboutism in these comments.

"Whataboutism" is not a valid refutation in most contexts. It's more of a chant, a mantra, a trigger word you are conditioned to bring up when some kind of obvious hypocrisy or double standard is being pointed out that you cannot otherwise refute. [edit] Also, "whataboutism" the word, sounds like from 2ndgrader vocabulary

It's not a refutation. You aren't replying to an attempt to refute something.

You're replying to an expression of shock at the behavior on display (specifically, people claiming - in a thread about Chinese torture camps - that we should not talk about them, because we weren't talking about American torture camps, so it would be hypocritical to talk about the Chinese ones).

I'm generally in agreement that this isn't great behavior.

Complaining that a word sounds childish while displaying your ignorance of its meaning is not the slam dunk you think it is.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#103

Post by IncRnd »

VictorPath wrote: post #68
blueflow wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody wants China to get away with their camps, but no one wants the US to get away with Guantanamo Bay, either. > That's not the same as putting people into prison because their religious beliefs make them enemies of the state. Isn't this what some people ended up in Guantanamo Bay for? Edit: TIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_detainees_at_Guantanamo...

> Guantanamo Bay Other than that the US kidnaps people from various countries, often without approval of the country where the kidnapping happens, brings the rebel (patriot?) to Guantanamo Bay without even trial by US legal system and waterboards and tortures them and holds them indefinitely - although some are realized to be the wrong identity and let go - there is another point... ...Cuba has denounced the US milit…

> ...Cuba has denounced the US military occupation of Guantanamo Bay for decades, and requested the US to leave. So this is happening against the wishes of the country it is happening in.

It's not a military occupation in the sense you imply. It is a perpetual lease made between the US and Cuba. [1]

[1] https://www.cnic.navy.mil/regions/cnrse/installations/ns_gua...

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#104

Post by lenkite »

BobbyJo wrote: post #89
lenkite wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) You are put there for your ethnicity and religion, (no suspected crimes are needed for detainment), despite being a Chinese citizen. Ditto in Guantanamo. I suggest doing a bit more research. > 2) Freedom of press in the US means we found out bad things were happening in Guantanamo, and the prison has since been mostly wound down. Done not by the US press but by Wikileaks, whose founder ( Assange) is being hounde…

> Ditto in Guantanamo. I suggest doing a bit more research. There are far more than 1000 Islamists in the US. Not sure where you're pulling that statement from. > Done not by the US press but by Wikileaks, whose founder ( Assange) is being hounded by both the US govt and the media. And I can freely read all about it. It was picked up by every major news organization on American soil. >Stop with the sanctimonious hypo…

> There are far more than 1000 Islamists in the US. Not sure where you're pulling that statement from.

I am responding to this statement: "You are put there for your ethnicity and religion, (no suspected crimes are needed for detainment), despite being a Chinese citizen.".

I am sure you are aware that there were no suspected crimes needed for detainment in Gitmo and the US government said: "It Can Indefinitely Detain Anyone — Even U.S. Citizens".

> Is it hypocritical to point out bad comparisons?

No, not as an individual and I will concede that to you. But as a government, MOST certainly yes. The US always berates and sanctions other nations for policies that itself regularly carries out without any blowback. Most of the bad stuff never makes it to the US media if the media favours the party in power and it doesn't serve US interests.

One set of standards for the US (& its close allies) and another set of standards for the rest of the world

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#105

Post by [deleted] »

propagandist wrote: post #12
plouffy wrote: post #8

Holly molly, the whatsaboutism in these comments.

If a had a penny every time ... There needs to be a better response to pointing out hypocrisy. If you care about China's abuses but not ours and our allies, you do not have the moral high ground, and morality is a political tool to you.

[deleted]

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#106

Post by lr4444lr »

lom wrote: post #54
lr4444lr wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't recall any US prison in the last 70+ years where people on the order of a million people, largely from a single region or ethnicity, were imprisoned on suspicion of mere affiliation. Every country probably has a signature few cases of prosecution that may provoke our indignation. That's not the same as putting people into prison because their religious beliefs make them enemies of the state.

https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/japanese-america...

Absolutely. I didn't pick "70" randomly.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#107

Post by muh_gradle »

okl wrote: post #77
NmAmDa wrote: post #67

It is clear that many people (sometimes with good intentions) would bring this logic to any discussion about this matter. . China is having their Muslim population put into camps and they live in a horrible injustice situation. They are targeted because of their religion /ethnicity. Chinese government saying that US is being hypocrite because they did so and so in Iraq and whatever happened after 9/11 from abuses..et…

> Chinese government saying that US is being hypocrite because they did so and so in Iraq and whatever happened after 9/11 from abuses. That is an argument against abuse, not in favor. What are their arguments to support their actions?

There are literally none. I've followed enough of the discourse on this to have verified this. Any valid critique is simply hand waved as Sinophobia.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#108

Post by olsonjeffery »

bostonsre wrote: post #87
ATsch wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I think the point is you are wholly ignoring atrocities committed by the ccp and changing the topic. So what if the US did bad things, the ccp is doing horrible things and that is what the article is about. What is your response to that? They are imprisoning millions, it boggles my mind how bringing it to light could be considered nothing more than point scoring.

As long as the US can’t be held accountable, neither will China. Simple as that. China’s abuses flourish amid a global economic order that the United States of America has a stranglehold on.

Why does China not “enjoy” the same kinds of sanctions as the Russia? Because we live in a world without justice where the demand for open (not free!) markets and the flow of goods to the metropol.

And if you support out present system, you should acknowledge that things are exactly as they should be.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#109

Post by cabirum »

zthrowaway wrote: post #11
rabite wrote: post #3

[flagged]

Story about how bad China treats its people, “there’s definitely going to be a ‘But the west!’ ridiculous whataboutism. And here we are. I feel like I can predict comments on HN threads these days and it’s pretty sad.

No one have ever said that human rights abuses of any kind are okay.

Still, since "the west" uses tools such as illegal detention camps, blacksite prisons, etc to its advantage -- NOT using the same tools by everyone else would put them in a disadvantage.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#110

Post by BobbyJo »

blueflow wrote: post #92
BobbyJo wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Normal numbers are zero. Name a government that hasn't abused it's power at one point. Not sure what your definition of normal is in this instance. > Who ended up in prison for it? I'd be ok if China simply stopped what they are doing without sending anyone to prison. To answer your question though, no one. It's hard to prosecute individuals for an organization's failings without dismantling the organization, which…

I'd be okay if the US simply stopped invading some countries or toppling random governments every 5 years. Many people of the rest of the world wish for the responsible US politicians to be put away. I hope the American perpetrators find similar ends. Its an awful kind of mockery to see the US displaying themselves as the hand of justice in the Xinjiang situation. I wish countries like the Netherlands or Switzerland…

> I'd be okay if the US simply stopped invading some countries or toppling random governments every 5 years.

Me too, not sure what that has to do with anything.

> Many people of the rest of the world wish for the responsible US politicians to be put away. I hope the American perpetrators find similar ends.

ok? Not sure where that fits in though.

> Its an awful kind of mockery to see the US displaying themselves as the hand of justice in the Xinjiang situation. I wish countries like the Netherlands or Switzerland would do it instead, their hands are much, much cleaner.

If you consider doing nothing at all about bad things happening clean, then sure. Also, your diction leads me to believe you are Chinese yourself, so maybe a little bias?

> This is the same kind of mockery as having Saudi Arabia on the UN panel for womens rights.

The US doesn't have over a million people in a concentration camp right now, so I don't see the similarity.

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