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Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

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Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#71

Post by jxjabzb »

lr4444lr wrote: post #42
ATsch wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I don't recall any US prison in the last 70+ years where people on the order of a million people, largely from a single region or ethnicity, were imprisoned on suspicion of mere affiliation. Every country probably has a signature few cases of prosecution that may provoke our indignation. That's not the same as putting people into prison because their religious beliefs make them enemies of the state.

> Every country probably has a signature few cases of prosecution that may provoke our indignation.

A “few signature cases”??

I completely agree that what China is doing is completely wrong, immoral and bordering on genocide but let’s not swing too far the other way here.

The US has used the prison system to persecute black people en mass for the past 70 years. Look at differing rates of incarceration and length of sentences.

On top of that, the reason that the US has the highest prison population is because of the war on drugs, which the US has long used as an excuse to persecute minorities, whether they are black, Hispanic, Chinese or Mormon.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#73

Post by modo_mario »

lr4444lr wrote: post #42
ATsch wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I don't recall any US prison in the last 70+ years where people on the order of a million people, largely from a single region or ethnicity, were imprisoned on suspicion of mere affiliation. Every country probably has a signature few cases of prosecution that may provoke our indignation. That's not the same as putting people into prison because their religious beliefs make them enemies of the state.

Given that in the order of million people were killed abroad as a result of certain escapades people on the opposite site of the fence are never going to view the west as sitting on a high horse. Hell the US openly accused china of purposefully not keeping extremism in check few years prior when some ended up flowing into Afghanistan.

Fuck the CCP but I'm sure they have an easy time using the US's own actions in the domestic arena where they have the upper hand. As they can magnify every bit of hypocrisy and flaw just like happens here. Countless incarcerated? Still much less than in the US! Hell they too can probably make up some stuff on the go. Refer to the Tibetans that were armed and then paid by the US to leave and claim similar stuff is happening now. It doesn't take much for their people to align with em. Hell plenty were already mad about exemptions the uighurs got from the 1 child policy and such.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#74

Post by saiya-jin »

dave_sullivan wrote: post #25
propagandist wrote: post #7

Quoted post unavailable.

They have, and there will be more. The US should continue to listen and consider how they can change. Avoiding the topic is not a viable way forward.

That's all nice and reads even nicer, but hell will freeze sooner than mercenary bands like former Blackwater will be prosecuted in US for war crimes they provably committed. I mean real prosecution, with life/death sentences for murders of civilians, not some sham trial just to tick a box.

The topic is out there for more than a decade. Nobody actually cares that much.

There is simply 0 political will, and the dirty work done needs to be done by somebody (in the vein of 'we need to invade yet another country for blah reasons' vein of logic).

Naive me hopes Ukraine will change US population mindset towards offensive wars done for 0 good reasons.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#75

Post by BobbyJo »

blueflow wrote: post #62
BobbyJo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's not. In some instances people were in the wrong place at the wrong time, or treated poorly based on pretty minor actions, but even at it's height Guantanamo housed Also, the U.S. didn't 'get away with' Guantanamo. It was a big news cycle and the prison is nearly shut down now, and operates with much more consideration for the prisoners, giving them access to counsel and repatriating then when able.

> housed Normal numbers are zero. > Also, the U.S. didn't 'get away with' Guantanamo Who ended up in prison for it?

> Normal numbers are zero.

Name a government that hasn't abused it's power at one point. Not sure what your definition of normal is in this instance.

> Who ended up in prison for it?

I'd be ok if China simply stopped what they are doing without sending anyone to prison.

To answer your question though, no one. It's hard to prosecute individuals for an organization's failings without dismantling the organization, which is the US military in this case. The best we can hope for is fixes to prevent such abuses inches future, which we got.

Many Americans, myself included, wish some people were put away, and also sincerely hope that the perpetrators of abuses in Xinjiang find similar ends.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#76

Post by ATsch »

colanderman wrote: post #38
ATsch wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I for one am interested in the results, not the purity of motivation. If China in turn does something to further the release of Gitmo detainees, all the better. Show me that article, I'll upvote it, and downvote all the whataboutism from Westerners about China.

I would agree with you, were it not for two things:

- The fact that neither China nor the US are actually even interested protecting these people from human rights abuses.

- The history of US interventions making thing significantly worse, not better (see: every US intervention)

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#77

Post by okl »

NmAmDa wrote: post #67

It is clear that many people (sometimes with good intentions) would bring this logic to any discussion about this matter. . China is having their Muslim population put into camps and they live in a horrible injustice situation. They are targeted because of their religion /ethnicity. Chinese government saying that US is being hypocrite because they did so and so in Iraq and whatever happened after 9/11 from abuses..et…

> Chinese government saying that US is being hypocrite because they did so and so in Iraq and whatever happened after 9/11 from abuses.

That is an argument against abuse, not in favor. What are their arguments to support their actions?

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#78

Post by throwaway040922 »

earthbee wrote: post #51
throwaway040922 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We should talk about the many abuses and injustices committed by the US, but why should every thread criticising Russia or China also be a thread criticising the US? If someone is genuinely concerned about the abuses of the US government then shouldn't they be making their own threads and posts without prompting, instead of just tacking them on to every thread about Russia or China?

This story is specifically about a man that members of the U.S. government were lobbying to come and testify at the ICC ("...after months of behind-the-scenes lobbying by U.S. lawmakers, human rights activists and international lawyers"). The ICC that the U.S. is not only not a member of, but specifically has a law against anyone assisting the ICC in cases against members of the American government[1]. I don't see why the motivations of the groups involved shouldn't be discussed.

Likewise, if someone suspects someone of bias, I don't think it's unimportant to ask them if they hold consistent positions. If a Trump supporter is talking about how Biden should be impeached for something Trump did, I don't think it's "whatboutism" to ask if they would hold the same standard to Trump (or vice versa). There's a big difference between being concerned about something because of an underlying moral principal, and being concerned about something because of a specific bias against one of the groups involved. This used to be considered an important distinction, but now people act as if we shouldn't even talk about it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...

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