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FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

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Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#351

Post by Clubber »

lkxijlewlf wrote: post #223
jmyeet wrote: post #178

Let's compare this experience to that of Amir Locke [1]. To summarize: the Minneapolis PD was executing a no-knock warrant in a homicide investigation. Locke was not the target of the warrant but was sleeping on the couch. He was licensed for the firearm and it was completely legal. When startled awake, he reached for his gun (natural reaction) and the police shot and killed him. You'd think the NRA would be all over…

Begs the question: If you can be startled away by the someone breaking into your home and you reach for you gun and are shot dead by the police, do you really have the right to bear arms? I would really love to see some laws that allow us to defend ourselves against police. If they decide to just beat my ass, they can and I can't defend myself. WTF!?

>If they decide to just beat my ass, they can and I can't defend myself.

Kenneth Walker, Breonna Taylor's boyfriend was cleared of charges of shooting back at police. Had it not been as publicized he would probably be in jail though. It's possible but it's an uphill struggle, the system will defend itself any way possible.

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-56331483

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#352

Post by Clubber »

nootropicat wrote: post #270
Clubber wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The percentages are higher for Black Americans, but White Americans still make up the majority of people shot by police[1]. Yes I never understood this tactic. If you really want citizen support (which is required), you need to show that all citizens are subject to this type of injustice. If leaders just say one group is affected and don't show that all citizens are affected, you won't get change as fast, if at all.…

>Yes I never understood this tactic. If you really want citizen support (which is required), you need to show that all citizens are subject to this type of injustice. If leaders just say one group is affected and don't show that all citizens are affected, you won't get change as fast, if at all. It all makes sense if you start from a cynical assumption that the real point of most political activism is exclusively to…

>It all makes sense if you start from a cynical assumption that the real point of most political activism is exclusively to acquire political capital, then spend it on acquiring power, rather than fixing the issue.

I suspect that's the case. I mean at least Huey Long got things done for his constituents while lining his pockets. It seems today's political class just want to line their pockets and ignore their constituents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huey_Long

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#353

Post by Etherlord87 »

belter wrote: post #139

Fought Experiment: Lets say law enforcement was given the task to examine the affairs of 100, randomly selected, poor/medium income households and 100, randomly selected, very wealthy households. Statistically, where would they find the most amount of criminal activity? Has any similar research been done, and would you care to share the data?

I'm surprised by the reactions to your comment, because the first thing I thought was "obviously the very wealthy households, because of drugs present".

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#354

Post by monocularvision »

jmyeet wrote: post #178

Let's compare this experience to that of Amir Locke [1]. To summarize: the Minneapolis PD was executing a no-knock warrant in a homicide investigation. Locke was not the target of the warrant but was sleeping on the couch. He was licensed for the firearm and it was completely legal. When startled awake, he reached for his gun (natural reaction) and the police shot and killed him. You'd think the NRA would be all over…

At this point, I look at the NRA in the same way I look at the ACLU. Both were issue advocacy groups but both have expanded into a general partisan / left-right fundraising machine thanks to more and more polarization.

Many gun-owning folks I know have joined other pro-second amendment advocacy groups in disappointment.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#355

Post by long_time_gone »

Clubber wrote: post #348
long_time_gone wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did you do any of those things, or are you just pointing fingers at people for not doing the same things you did't do? I protested, donated, wrote letters to voters, and contacted a local politician. But that isn't relevant to the original comment, which was a person claiming that "everyone I talked to said it was horrible" is equivalent to gun rights activism.

So let me break down how I read it. This is what the person was replying to, he quoted it so will I: > Again: you can't get white activist gun owners to defend a licensed gun owner who was surprised and shot in his own home by police executing a no-knock warrant that wasn't for him. Which is first, an absolute, and absolutes are rarely true. Second, you said defend. "...you can't get white activist gun owners to defe…

> It sounds like you might want to slow down a bit and give people the benefit of the doubt, maybe take the time to read and understand what people write. I have the same affliction myself sometimes.

Thanks for the advice, but I re-read everything and verified that I understood. It's possible that we just disagree, or maybe your quoted comment removes all context from the discussion.

> Did you do any of those things, or are you just pointing fingers at people for not doing the same things you did't do?

Was this an example of you giving me the benefit of the doubt?

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#356

Post by nicoburns »

spacemanmatt wrote: post #151
nicoburns wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree in general, although I'm not sure criminal prosecution would be worthwhile/appropriate for breaking a door down. For more serious crimes absolutely.

I think they should experience the MORE legal risk for a trespass and property damage that I do. You seem to be arguing that they should still have qualified immunity, but maybe not so much of it, if I'm understanding?

I guess I feel like there are pretty much no circumstances in which I would need to break down a door. Whereas police officers are likely to find themselves in circumstances where breaking down a door is legitimately the right thing to do quite a bit more often. So perhaps some allowance for that is merited.

I'd like to live in a world where lawsuits aren't necessary to achieve justice, except in extreme cases.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#357

Post by ryathal »

njovin wrote: post #325
lkxijlewlf wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Begs the question: If you can be startled away by the someone breaking into your home and you reach for you gun and are shot dead by the police, do you really have the right to bear arms? I would really love to see some laws that allow us to defend ourselves against police. If they decide to just beat my ass, they can and I can't defend myself. WTF!?

At some point there needs to be a supreme court decision that reconciles the legality of no-knock warrants with castle doctrine/self-defense/second-amendment. My understanding of the current state of things is that in some jurisdictions it's simultaneously legal for armed police to violently enter your home without identifying themselves and for you to defend your home by firing a weapon at them. Basically, we have l…

This basically requires someone to live through a no knock warrant and kill several police officers, which probably will never happen.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#358

Post by AnonCoward4 »

Bilal_io wrote: post #257
AnonCoward4 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is disingenious at best. Looking at the population ratio vs killing makes no sense whatsoever. In that case just use that to justify why men are more often subject to police violence than women. We all know why, but with race there may be no differences ... but there are. In the case of race you can't just ignore that black people do roughly 50% of violent crimes (just look at arson, don't even try to excuse it)…

> black people do roughly 50% of violent crimes Thank you for this information. So do you support the fact that police in this country are working as a judge, jury and executor? I am sorry, but if I were you, I'd be ashamed to use such justification for people's killings. Let's focus on the issue at hand, policing violence is a problem that needs to be addressed, putting the blame on one side or the other because "th…

> I am sorry, but if I were you, I'd be ashamed to use such justification for people's killings.

It's a statistic, that is more relevant than plain population share.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#359

Post by AnonCoward4 »

antattack wrote: post #285
AnonCoward4 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is disingenious at best. Looking at the population ratio vs killing makes no sense whatsoever. In that case just use that to justify why men are more often subject to police violence than women. We all know why, but with race there may be no differences ... but there are. In the case of race you can't just ignore that black people do roughly 50% of violent crimes (just look at arson, don't even try to excuse it)…

Would you not accept that African-Americans might be victims of circumstances? As shown in the article it matters where you live. Also, criminal who's house FBI forcefully entered was not 'white'.

> Would you not accept that African-Americans might be victims of circumstances?

I don't introduce new standards for them. If you want to mitigate racism, hold them accountable for their actions and don't act like people with a different skin tone can take no responsibility.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#360

Post by rayiner »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #342
rayiner wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Liberals are invested in social theories that reject the importance of fathers in socializing boys? In academia, public policy, and political messaging, yes. With a few exceptions. > Are you sure you're not getting this stuff from Youtube, and kind of winding yourself up? I don’t watch YouTube. It doesn’t even really come up in right-wing media, because much of the Trump right is itself a product of the post-family…

>> You have lots of people who preach permissiveness and self fulfillment in public and practice rigid conformity in their own lives. Growing up I reconciled this as the way my parents did: “things it’s okay for Americans to do versus but not for us to do.” I find that suboptimal now. Are you the product of an immigrant family? Because it sounds quite like something many immigrant parents would say.

> Are you the product of an immigrant family? Because it sounds quite like something many immigrant parents would say.

Not only that, I'm one of those immigrant kids who thinks my parents were wise and correct, instead of rebelling.

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