I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself • Hacker News Board

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#281

Post by 97s » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 7:07 PM UTC

tstrimple wrote: post #245

97s wrote: post #171

I have a son who is 11. All of his friends have smart phones. He will have friends over to the house and the friends will sit there and stare at their phones. My son who doesn't have a phone will be like, hey can you get off tiktok so we can play or go outside? It is rather sad to see this, they are hanging out sharing videos they find on their feeds through their phones. One time my son said, hey get off your phone…

> I have a son who is 11. All of his friends have smart phones. He will have friends over to the house and the friends will sit there and stare at their phones. My son who doesn't have a phone will be like, hey can you get off tiktok so we can play or go outside? I have a daughter who is 10. She and most of her friends have a smart phone. She is friends with a neighbor girl who is home schooled. When they hang out, t…

My son has access to all the other great things like tv, streaming, video games etc. I think going all one way or all the other is of course no good also. It is about a nice mix, right?

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#282

Post by PeterBarrett » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 7:07 PM UTC

basedgod wrote: post #198

PeterBarrett wrote: post #10

I don't have kids yet but it is something that has been discussed about my nieces and nephews. As you say, you don't want your kids to become social pariahs but you also don't want to give them smart phones, in this day and age it looks like the two are intrinsically linked, which is disappointing. I would like to say that we can teach kids to have a healthy relationship with the internet and social media but sites l…

ah yes the whole "Coca Cola corp. says you can't just ban your kids from drinking and eating sugar !!! then when they turn 18 they'll fall off the wagon and eat nothing but sugar ! better to have them eat it throughout their childhood so they KNOW how to avoid it" do you people ever try to have an independent thought outside of the propaganda of big business ? what kind of nonsense of this, that children should be ex…

Your argument is about as well formed as your sentences. I can only assume you're a troll account given how new your account is and that you clearly didn't read the comment you're replying to.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#283

Post by 97s » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 7:20 PM UTC

polishdude20 wrote: post #263

97s wrote: post #171

I have a son who is 11. All of his friends have smart phones. He will have friends over to the house and the friends will sit there and stare at their phones. My son who doesn't have a phone will be like, hey can you get off tiktok so we can play or go outside? It is rather sad to see this, they are hanging out sharing videos they find on their feeds through their phones. One time my son said, hey get off your phone…

It's interesting to think that right now, at your son's age, most people have friends that are dictated by their classrooms and just the people forced to be around them from 9-3 every day. I noticed as I finished high school and post secondary school, my friends became people who I actually wanted to hang out with. I had complete freedom to find others to socialize with that were more similar to me. I guess my questi…

I don't know, and I won't know until later I guess if it is a major mistake or not. He knows that if he wants to go to hang out with friends he can just get their parents number and I will call them and be like hey can our boys hang out, I will come get your kid etc.

The one thing I do know is that there isn't much good left in social media besides a few edge cases where its a resourceful group that hasn't moved off the platforms. I don't use social media anymore. We had to lead by example, so my wife and I both removed it from our lives. We are better off for sure without it.

It is an infinite time suck, and while that might be fine for adults who are grounded in their work life and need an outlet to just relax. Children have so much room to learn, explore and develop that it isn't a healthy eco-system for them to be on for hours and hours a day.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#284

Post by 97s » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 7:25 PM UTC

yumraj wrote: post #271

97s wrote: post #171

I have a son who is 11. All of his friends have smart phones. He will have friends over to the house and the friends will sit there and stare at their phones. My son who doesn't have a phone will be like, hey can you get off tiktok so we can play or go outside? It is rather sad to see this, they are hanging out sharing videos they find on their feeds through their phones. One time my son said, hey get off your phone…

I agree. I'm a little disappointed really to read so many people talk about kids becoming social pariah and how they're just going to teach kids how to use social networks responsibly. My older did not get a cellphone till 9th grade, that too because the kid used to walk to school. I use pi-hole at home and the kid has never used FB, Instagram, Tiktok. Unfortunately kids use Discord for communicating, so had to allow…

So we are pretty similar. We don't use social media, either. We feel that it is silly to be like, don't get on this, if we are also on it. Our kids still have tv, switch, etc etc, but I make sure that I don't allow anything into the house that is inherently made to trick them into spending infinite time on, which is becoming harder and harder to do. For example, when we were kids, games had a beginning and then an end. That isn't always the case now, lots of games have infinite updates and more and more to do, so I am careful to explain that hey, you are playing this game a lot because it always has more task for you to do, are you enjoying just completing these virtual tasks everyday? Are you gaining anything from it, I understand you are relaxing from your day at school, but how long are you going to spend on this mindless thing? Then he will usually look at me and agree that he probably has been on too long and will end what he is doing and go find enjoyment elsewhere with something that isn't designed to be addictive and the perfect challenge dopamine hit.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#285

Post by 97s » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 7:33 PM UTC

ss108 wrote: post #262

97s wrote: post #171

I have a son who is 11. All of his friends have smart phones. He will have friends over to the house and the friends will sit there and stare at their phones. My son who doesn't have a phone will be like, hey can you get off tiktok so we can play or go outside? It is rather sad to see this, they are hanging out sharing videos they find on their feeds through their phones. One time my son said, hey get off your phone…

What about the useful aspects of being able to reach/keep tabs on your kid, have it available for them for emergencies, etc? Is it still possible to buy a flip-phone or something for such purposes? I don't have a child, but I wouldn't mind buying them a Nokia brick once they are around 12 or 13 lol

As a parent I usually know the general where about of my kid like 99% of the time (or at least where to start looking), and if I don't know exactly where he is I know how to contact whoever he is with to find out. Of course this will change as he gets into middle/highschool.

I mean we grew up without phones and our parents+ grew up without phones. I think it will be fine. He knows both of our phone numbers so if he ever needed something he would probably just ask a stranger to borrow their phone to call his parents or something.

I might be the edge case here, but I really like that he has to think about what he is going to do, or where he is going to go with his friends; that he might have to somehow contact me so he has to plan ahead. This is what we did when we were kids, we would have to let our parents know ahead of time where they could find us. It is sort of a responsibility that has kind of faded away with everyone having phones.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#286

Post by 97s » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 7:39 PM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #233

97s wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea. This is something I have thought about, but the wife and I have decided to just wait and see how the middle school years go. I imagine it is going to probably become amplified. It is interesting to think about how we understand social things for our kids. When I grew up the only social time I had was when I actually hung out with my friends. We didn't have internet until I was around 16ish. The only social aspec…

>It's amazing how it is expected now for kids to be able to communicate with their friends 24/7. >I'm not sure if this is good or bad. I used to be convinced it was because of my age, but the more I interact with kids, the more I am convinced that I am right. It is bad, with almost no good in return. The pressure today's children live under is absolutely incredible. They are expected to be available 24/7. EVERY mista…

I totally agree. We used to have so much self time when we were children, playing in our rooms, out in the woods, out on the street looking at random things or just watching people. Now kids can easily be trapped into never ever being alone; what a nightmare. People around me think that I am absolutely crazy for not giving my 11 year old a cell phone, but I can't think of a single valid reason he really needs one right now.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#287

Post by 97s » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 7:40 PM UTC

micromacrofoot wrote: post #264

97s wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean because you didn't understand like common things with kids because you had no tv? Or because you were raised like completely different?

Both. In middle school I was ostracized as the weird kid that "doesn't even have a TV." No one wanted to come over to my house. It mostly went away in high school, but middle school was terrible.

Kids are brutal. Sorry.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#288

Post by nukemaster » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

estaseuropano wrote: post #249

PeterBarrett wrote: post #10

I don't have kids yet but it is something that has been discussed about my nieces and nephews. As you say, you don't want your kids to become social pariahs but you also don't want to give them smart phones, in this day and age it looks like the two are intrinsically linked, which is disappointing. I would like to say that we can teach kids to have a healthy relationship with the internet and social media but sites l…

I used to lead policy on digital school education for an important organization advising governments on education policy. This was my driving concern: to fight against all the old grumpy people that don't understand and absolutely fear the digital world and think that all would be well if we ban 0s and 1s from school and force kids to go into the woods (not at all exaggerating on the latter part). There were also oth…

No post body was provided.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#289

Post by jjav » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:05 PM UTC

97s wrote: post #171

I have a son who is 11. All of his friends have smart phones. He will have friends over to the house and the friends will sit there and stare at their phones. My son who doesn't have a phone will be like, hey can you get off tiktok so we can play or go outside? It is rather sad to see this, they are hanging out sharing videos they find on their feeds through their phones. One time my son said, hey get off your phone…

> I have a son who is 11. All of his friends have smart phones.

My child is also 11. Fortunately none of the friends or anyone in class has a smartphone yet.

I think this is somewhat easier here, in Silicon Valley. Most of the parents are either directly in tech or in very adjacent fields so we experience how the sausage is made and want no part of it. So parents are pretty aligned on no social media and minimal tech. I don't use a smartphone myself, so helps in leading by example. (I have one, but mostly it sits in my work backpack and I hardly ever take it out.)

Most of them have laptops, although only very recently. So they can research (DDG, never google) topics for school and personal interest but it's not something they have nearby most of the time.

So luckily they still get together and do the same things I was doing at 11, ride bikes everywhere and play in the park, forest and beach. Weekends we go camping in areas with minimal to no cell signals (also wonderful for parents, impossible to check jira tickets when there is no signal!). I'm sure it'll get more difficult in middle school and beyond, time will tell.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#290

Post by rglullis » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:27 PM UTC

em-bee wrote: post #270

rglullis wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one can compel you to use WhatsApp. If the school says that they need to have mandatory communication with parents and children through some kind of system, it needs to be universal. In my kids' kita, I wasn't alone when I said that I didn't want to use WhatsApp. So we created a mailing list. Parents and teachers can still talk on whatsapp if they prefer, but any "official communication" needs to be through email.

it helps a lot if you have one or two allies who agree with you. but when you are the only one it feels very isolating, like everyone is against you. and not everyone is willing to put up a fight alone.

The first thing to change would be this attitude. Don't treat it as a fight, and don't think of people being "against you" but merely "insensitive to the matter".

Just talk with them, see how much common ground you can find. In my conversations with other parents, I found that some were interested in changing away from whatsapp, but didn't know what would be the "best" alternative. In the end they opted for Signal, still not ideal but at least it was a step in the right direction.