FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood' • Hacker News Board

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#291

Post by Clubber » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

nootropicat wrote: post #270

Clubber wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The percentages are higher for Black Americans, but White Americans still make up the majority of people shot by police[1]. Yes I never understood this tactic. If you really want citizen support (which is required), you need to show that all citizens are subject to this type of injustice. If leaders just say one group is affected and don't show that all citizens are affected, you won't get change as fast, if at all.…

>Yes I never understood this tactic. If you really want citizen support (which is required), you need to show that all citizens are subject to this type of injustice. If leaders just say one group is affected and don't show that all citizens are affected, you won't get change as fast, if at all. It all makes sense if you start from a cynical assumption that the real point of most political activism is exclusively to…

I agree with your assessment of "defund the police," but that was an unfortunate slogan that got converted from "reappropriate funds from police to other services like mental health, counseling, etc." I think that was also politicized. I believe many police departments are entities that also fall into the category of self service and self preservation.

Our medium town spends $500 million on police and barely a fraction of that on drug rehab, mental health, etc. It certainly seems misappropriated.

I don't know much about meth, but concerning the opioid crisis, our solution was to "crack down," on prescriptions, which sounds good to someone who doesn't give it much thought. The actual outcome was people went from using a drug with a dosage printed on the side to stuff made in people's bathrooms and kitchens including god knows what which resulted in many, many more deaths.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#292

Post by blueflow » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:40 PM UTC

nfriedly wrote: post #288

The FBI absolutely deserves all of the flak they're getting, but I think it's somewhat misdirected. It seems that a lot of folks believe the FBI should have knocked down the door. I'd argue the opposite - I'd prefer they gave people in poor neighborhoods the same level of respect that they showed this time. If the normal policy was to prefer to avoid property damage, then this situation would have just been business…

Its "Flak", it is derived from the German "Flugabwehrkanone", meaning anti-aircraft gun. "getting flak" means getting shot at.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#293

Post by whatshisface » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:40 PM UTC

nootropicat wrote: post #270

Clubber wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The percentages are higher for Black Americans, but White Americans still make up the majority of people shot by police[1]. Yes I never understood this tactic. If you really want citizen support (which is required), you need to show that all citizens are subject to this type of injustice. If leaders just say one group is affected and don't show that all citizens are affected, you won't get change as fast, if at all.…

>Yes I never understood this tactic. If you really want citizen support (which is required), you need to show that all citizens are subject to this type of injustice. If leaders just say one group is affected and don't show that all citizens are affected, you won't get change as fast, if at all. It all makes sense if you start from a cynical assumption that the real point of most political activism is exclusively to…

Your drug legalization proposals might have the side effects of increasing the number of people who start taking those drugs. People respond to incentives and you can't both say that restrictions aren't making drugs harder to find and that they're driving addicts to dangerous substitutes.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#294

Post by Veen » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:41 PM UTC

jmyeet wrote: post #281

ght wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are going to bring into account how many African-Americans are being killed by police we need to also bring into account the FBI's violent crime statistics. Blacks made up 56% of known murder offenders. While European Whites were 28% of known murder offenders while making up 60-65% of the population. Remember, African-Americans are only 11% of the population. That is a huge discrepancy that needs to be brought…

I'm going to assume good intent here and say you've been sucked into some white supremacist propaganda. This falls under the umbrella of "1350" [1]: > The number 13 used in conjunction with either the number 52 or the number 90 is a shorthand reference to racist propaganda claims by white supremacists against African-Americans to depict them as savage and criminal in nature. If anything, it's evidence of overpolicing…

I too will assume good faith, and point out that you have not responded to the point about disparities in violent crime rates. All you've said is: "some white supremicists make the same argument". That's not a refutation, it's an attempt to brush the stats under the rug while smearing the person who asked the question.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#295

Post by AlgorithmicTime » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:42 PM UTC

lkxijlewlf wrote: post #223

jmyeet wrote: post #178

Let's compare this experience to that of Amir Locke [1]. To summarize: the Minneapolis PD was executing a no-knock warrant in a homicide investigation. Locke was not the target of the warrant but was sleeping on the couch. He was licensed for the firearm and it was completely legal. When startled awake, he reached for his gun (natural reaction) and the police shot and killed him. You'd think the NRA would be all over…

Begs the question: If you can be startled away by the someone breaking into your home and you reach for you gun and are shot dead by the police, do you really have the right to bear arms? I would really love to see some laws that allow us to defend ourselves against police. If they decide to just beat my ass, they can and I can't defend myself. WTF!?

No post body was provided.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#296

Post by jmyeet » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:43 PM UTC

ambrozk wrote: post #245

jmyeet wrote: post #178

Let's compare this experience to that of Amir Locke [1]. To summarize: the Minneapolis PD was executing a no-knock warrant in a homicide investigation. Locke was not the target of the warrant but was sleeping on the couch. He was licensed for the firearm and it was completely legal. When startled awake, he reached for his gun (natural reaction) and the police shot and killed him. You'd think the NRA would be all over…

I would be find what you wrote much more convincing if I didn't have sufficient knowledge of the Rittenhouse case to know you were deliberately misleading us by selectively presentating and omitting key facts. 1. You omit the defense's stated reasoning for bringing up Rosenbaum's prior convictions. Their theory was not "pedophiles bad kill pedophiles good." They wanted to argue that Rosenbaum lunged at Rittenhouse in…

> They wanted to argue that Rosenbaum lunged at Rittenhouse in order to take his firearm ...

That reason provides the moral cover for mudslinging at the victim but we all know what's going on.

From the perspective of those around Rittenhouse, they had no knowledge if this was about to turn into a mass shooting or not. Disarming him may well have saved lives (and would've as it turns out).

Defenders of these "stand your ground" type laws ignore the consequences of cases like this. Here's the lesson from the Rittenhouse case: as soon as he pulled out a gun, someone else should've shot and killed him and then argued (with some justification, honestly) they were in fear of their life.

The extreme here is the case of Curtis Reeves [1], who started an altercation with another man who was texting during the previews to a move. When the man stood to confront him, Reeves shot and killed him and successfully argued he was in fear of his life.

Take that further: the victim can reasonably argue he feared for his life when confronted by Reeves so, if he had a gun, he should've pulled it out and shot Reeves dead.

Like, this is just absolutely bananas.

[1]: https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investi...

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#297

Post by bavell » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:44 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #278

dontcare007 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's rich, trying to make exercising one right at a gathering of people exercising another right seem like a bad thing.

Legal right or not, showing up to a protest with weapons is a show of force, intimidation, and in my view enough threat to life to justify self-defense in basically any case where the armed person does basically anything other than stand like a statue. Like we're not 6 years old, surely we're not so naive to believe "I'm not shoooting youuu. I'm not shooooting youuuu" is somehow peaceful.

It was a riot, not a protest. The kid was an idiot for bringing a firearm, just like the idiots in the mob who chased a kid with a firearm.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#298

Post by nfriedly » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:45 PM UTC

blueflow wrote: post #292

nfriedly wrote: post #288

The FBI absolutely deserves all of the flak they're getting, but I think it's somewhat misdirected. It seems that a lot of folks believe the FBI should have knocked down the door. I'd argue the opposite - I'd prefer they gave people in poor neighborhoods the same level of respect that they showed this time. If the normal policy was to prefer to avoid property damage, then this situation would have just been business…

Its "Flak", it is derived from the German "Flugabwehrkanone", meaning anti-aircraft gun. "getting flak" means getting shot at.

Thanks, fixed.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#299

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:45 PM UTC

lijogdfljk wrote: post #287

ght wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are going to bring into account how many African-Americans are being killed by police we need to also bring into account the FBI's violent crime statistics. Blacks made up 56% of known murder offenders. While European Whites were 28% of known murder offenders while making up 60-65% of the population. Remember, African-Americans are only 11% of the population. That is a huge discrepancy that needs to be brought…

I never understand these types of statements. What is the attempted statement here? To imply that black people are inherently violent? What are you getting at? The way i see it, those numbers reflect the state of racially focused stunted development in many communities. It's like when people throw single-parent household statistics around with blacks. What do we think is the root cause here? That their skin color inh…

[deleted]

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#300

Post by throwaway040922 » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:46 PM UTC

jjulius wrote: post #280

throwaway040922 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that you have to go to alternative media like Reason to find articles about it speaks volume. Check out searches of mainstream news sites: Google search for "Duncan Lemp" site:nytimes.com[1]: Two articles, neither of which are about his shooting, but which mention him in passing when talking about Boogaloo "extremists." Google search for "Breonna Taylor" site:nytimes.com[2]: Dozens of articles from t…

>Check out searches of mainstream news sites... Simply for what it is worth, if I Google "duncan lemp", I see articles about the shooting from The Washington Post, USA Today, the AP, ABC and The Guardian.

Thanks. I just checked The Washington Post and USA Today. The Washington Post has three articles on Lemp and one that mentions him in passing. They're all in the local news section (the shooting happened in a suburb of Washington D.C.). There's over a dozen articles on Brionna Taylor, even though that happened in another part of the country. Likewise, USA Today has one article on Lemp, and over a dozen on Taylor.