FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood' • Hacker News Board

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#281

Post by jmyeet » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:30 PM UTC

ght wrote: post #229

Bilal_io wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Duncan Lemp should have received the media attention he deserves. That being said: 1- You said "This kind of violence affects everyone" and this is disingenuous when we look at the ratio of black vs white being murdered by police. [1] 2- The media attention Breonna et al. received was not about the individuals but for the community in general due to my previous point. [1] https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pn…

If we are going to bring into account how many African-Americans are being killed by police we need to also bring into account the FBI's violent crime statistics. Blacks made up 56% of known murder offenders. While European Whites were 28% of known murder offenders while making up 60-65% of the population. Remember, African-Americans are only 11% of the population. That is a huge discrepancy that needs to be brought…

I'm going to assume good intent here and say you've been sucked into some white supremacist propaganda. This falls under the umbrella of "1350" [1]:

> The number 13 used in conjunction with either the number 52 or the number 90 is a shorthand reference to racist propaganda claims by white supremacists against African-Americans to depict them as savage and criminal in nature.

If anything, it's evidence of overpolicing.

But this continues a centuries-old narrative that black people are violent and white people are a civilizing force. Both of these provided moral cover for slavery. This include religious figures justifying slavery as the slaves were being converted to Christianity and it would save their immortal souls.

I hope, for your sake, you can deconstruct this propaganda you've been exposed to.

[1]: https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/1352-1...

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#282

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:31 PM UTC

csallen wrote: post #37

babyshake wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least in capitalism you become rich by providing value to other people. You become rich by capturing value. Often times, as Silicon Valley and its investors like to remind the world, a lot of value is also being provided so it is indeed a win-win. But you don't become rich by providing value.

True. However, there are two points worth making: 1. The purpose of many laws and regulations that support capitalism is to make it very difficult to capture value without creating it. (When compared to a world without these laws.) 2. It's generally much easier to capture value that you create than to capture value that others create. The result is that there's a massive incentive to create value for others, and a gr…

[deleted]

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#283

Post by wmeredith » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

mcv wrote: post #108

ncmncm wrote: post #9

Maybe we should be asking why they are so eager to break down other people's doors, instead of harassing them for not breaking down just this one.

A lawyer in the article asks that very question. Many of their clients have had their front door bashed in without the FBI ever considering the aesthetics of that. If the FBI is concerned about such aesthetics, maybe it should extend that concern to all houses, and not just those in rich neighbourhoods. I believe there's evidence that property damage in a neighbourhood can lead to more crime ("broken windows"), so av…

Point of data for you–broken windows theory of crime and policing has been widely debunked. Here's one source of many: https://news.northeastern.edu/2019/05/15/northeastern-univer...

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#284

Post by 1123581321 » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

after_care wrote: post #263

1123581321 wrote: post #259

Struggling to find something worth discussing in this article: my takeaway is that we can preserve the life and property of our neighbor by making our homes look nicer. :) This principle plays out in small ways, too. Be diligent about picking up trash in your neighborhood and over time, the rate of littering will decrease. Park carefully on your curb and fewer will park haphazardly or on the wrong side. And so on.

Nah. No one gives a shit about a nice suburb in Dallas. I’ve seen feds execute warrants in very nice neighborhoods. The FBI canceled because the neighborhood was a nice one in DC, where people with external influence live.

I don’t live in Dallas so I’ll take your word for it. When you and your neighbors get together, does it seem hopeless or are there any other strategies being tried to prevent destructive raids?

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#285

Post by antattack » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

AnonCoward4 wrote: post #250

Bilal_io wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Duncan Lemp should have received the media attention he deserves. That being said: 1- You said "This kind of violence affects everyone" and this is disingenuous when we look at the ratio of black vs white being murdered by police. [1] 2- The media attention Breonna et al. received was not about the individuals but for the community in general due to my previous point. [1] https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pn…

This is disingenious at best. Looking at the population ratio vs killing makes no sense whatsoever. In that case just use that to justify why men are more often subject to police violence than women. We all know why, but with race there may be no differences ... but there are. In the case of race you can't just ignore that black people do roughly 50% of violent crimes (just look at arson, don't even try to excuse it)…

Would you not accept that African-Americans might be victims of circumstances? As shown in the article it matters where you live. Also, criminal who's house FBI forcefully entered was not 'white'.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#286

Post by bavell » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:34 PM UTC

throwaway040922 wrote: post #261

Clubber wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The percentages are higher for Black Americans, but White Americans still make up the majority of people shot by police[1]. Yes I never understood this tactic. If you really want citizen support (which is required), you need to show that all citizens are subject to this type of injustice. If leaders just say one group is affected and don't show that all citizens are affected, you won't get change as fast, if at all.…

Indeed. If I'm advocating for a project that will bring $10 million in to Town A that has a population of 5,000, and $50 million in to Town B with a population of 50,000, I'm going to be telling both Town A and Town B how the project will benefit them. I'm not going to be telling Town B that this project is only for Town A, and it's not an issue that affects Town B. If someone was saying that, you would expect that t…

I'm relieved that I'm not the only one who has come to this conclusion! It's so annoying and sad listening to all the people out there with good intentions who are failing so hard they actually drive people in the opposite direction. They would further their cause more by removing themselves from the discussion entirely.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#287

Post by lijogdfljk » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:35 PM UTC

ght wrote: post #229

Bilal_io wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Duncan Lemp should have received the media attention he deserves. That being said: 1- You said "This kind of violence affects everyone" and this is disingenuous when we look at the ratio of black vs white being murdered by police. [1] 2- The media attention Breonna et al. received was not about the individuals but for the community in general due to my previous point. [1] https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pn…

If we are going to bring into account how many African-Americans are being killed by police we need to also bring into account the FBI's violent crime statistics. Blacks made up 56% of known murder offenders. While European Whites were 28% of known murder offenders while making up 60-65% of the population. Remember, African-Americans are only 11% of the population. That is a huge discrepancy that needs to be brought…

I never understand these types of statements.

What is the attempted statement here? To imply that black people are inherently violent? What are you getting at?

The way i see it, those numbers reflect the state of racially focused stunted development in many communities.

It's like when people throw single-parent household statistics around with blacks. What do we think is the root cause here? That their skin color inherently made them do this? Or maybe, just maybe, the living conditions are not prone to healthy structured families and healthy individuals.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#288

Post by nfriedly » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:36 PM UTC

The FBI absolutely deserves all of the flak they're getting, but I think it's somewhat misdirected. It seems that a lot of folks believe the FBI should have knocked down the door. I'd argue the opposite - I'd prefer they gave people in poor neighborhoods the same level of respect that they showed this time. If the normal policy was to prefer to avoid property damage, then this situation would have just been business as usual and there wouldn't be any outrage.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#289

Post by long_time_gone » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:38 PM UTC

jimbob21 wrote: post #277

pessimizer wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If people actually cared about creating a broad coalition to address this, they would want to highlight both facts, not hide the latter fact. People fighting for black lives aren't hiding bad things that happen to white people. The reason Duncan Lemp doesn't have posters up about him isn't because black activists against police violence haven't fought for him, it's because both black and white activists against pol…

> Again: you can't get white activist gun owners to defend a licensed gun owner who was surprised and shot in his own home by police executing a no-knock warrant that wasn't for him. That's patently false at the very least. Everyone I've talked to said it was a horrible act and those officers deserve legal charges.

> Everyone I've talked to said it was a horrible act and those officers deserve legal charges.

That's great for the people you talked to, the comment was about the NRA or any other gun rights group actually defending him. Did you friends protest for him? Did they write their congressperson? Did they raise legal funds at the gun range? If they didn't, then they aren't activists.

What about Philando Castile? The NRA didn't have anything to say about that incident until a year later.

EDIT: made less combative.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#290

Post by DennisP » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 2:39 PM UTC

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #181

DennisP wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the general point raised by GP stands up pretty well. Even if sheriffs make a little more than devs in some states, it's not that extra bit of money that gives them a lot more political power. But just for another data point, in California the average salary for a software developer is $139K, while the average for sheriffs is $28/hour. https://www.indeed.com/career/sheriff/salaries/CA https://www.indeed.com/c…

what kind of comparison is that?! https://www.careerexplorer.com/careers/police-officer/salary... anyway median police officer in California is 111.3k.

We could keep pulling up relative salaries from different sources for different states all day, but it wouldn't shed much light on the basic claim that sheriffs tend to have political influence out of proportion to their salaries.