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FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

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Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#141
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually some rich old guy won't shoot at cops, when they come knocking at the door. Those people use lawyers, not guns.

They wont be shooting, they are probably busy shredding all the financial documents.

That they keep at home? And a shredder fast enough, that the police most break down the door without knocking?

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#142
post #106

What's actually disturbing is that more than 90% of the time this would be a "no knock" raid with paramiliterized police smashinng down the door, tossing in flash-bang grenades - the works. No knock should be reserved for extreme situations, not the norm.

> No knock should be reserved for extreme situations, not the norm. At this point, I'd say no knock should be unlawful.

Not knocking implies that you live there and have a right to utilize the residence which flies in the face of Amendment #3. The fact that they’re geared like the military, etc just makes this even more obvious to me.

Add to the fact that police will be stationed there over multiple days to investigate the domicile… sounds like quartering to me.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's jsut not true. A county sheriff has far more power than a software developer, despite being far less wealthy

The median salary for cops in this state is $105k a year. The median salary for software engineers in this state is $89k. Sheriffs make much more than your median cop does.

I think the general point raised by GP stands up pretty well. Even if sheriffs make a little more than devs in some states, it's not that extra bit of money that gives them a lot more political power.

But just for another data point, in California the average salary for a software developer is $139K, while the average for sheriffs is $28/hour.

https://www.indeed.com/career/sheriff/salaries/CA

https://www.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries/CA

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#144
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why not use the same tactics for both, rich and poor? Or is violence reserved for poorer people?

Usually some rich old guy won't shoot at cops, when they come knocking at the door. Those people use lawyers, not guns.

[deleted]

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually some rich old guy won't shoot at cops, when they come knocking at the door. Those people use lawyers, not guns.

Statistically, they don't prosecute wealthy people much to start with.

Wealthy people also do less violent crime, and use the many loopholes instead of directly stealing or doing other crime. Even if they get caught, they usually just get summoned to court by mail, and most of them don't need a swat team because they're not violent.

There was an interview with the Cops (tv show) producers, where they asked them why they show mostly black and poor white guys on the show, and not some white collar workers... and they said something along the lines of "get me a middle manager, that'll tear his shirt off and start fighting the police, and we'll record that"... Arrest of rich people usually go along the lines of the rich person saying "i want my lawyer" and pecefully following the police to the station.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually some rich old guy won't shoot at cops, when they come knocking at the door. Those people use lawyers, not guns.

"No Knock" usually implies that they don't announce that they are police before they kick the door down. I'm not sure I could confidently say that a rich person is less likely to draw a gun when someone kicks their door down in the middle of the night. Maybe they are more likely to have a panic room, or just long corridors that provide enough time for the situation to become clear before they have a gun held in their…

I mean... let's be real... a rich person will answer the knock, follow the police peacefully to the police car, and the only thing they'll say and do is "i want my lawyer"

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#147
post #139

Fought Experiment: Lets say law enforcement was given the task to examine the affairs of 100, randomly selected, poor/medium income households and 100, randomly selected, very wealthy households. Statistically, where would they find the most amount of criminal activity? Has any similar research been done, and would you care to share the data?

These types of statistics are politically inconvinient and will never be reported on.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#148
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. However, there are two points worth making: 1. The purpose of many laws and regulations that support capitalism is to make it very difficult to capture value without creating it. (When compared to a world without these laws.) 2. It's generally much easier to capture value that you create than to capture value that others create. The result is that there's a massive incentive to create value for others, and a gr…

> It's generally much easier to capture value that you create than to capture value that others create. I think that's probably true in general, but that over the course of ~100 years of capitalism the edge cases where this isn't true have been exploited sufficiently that it's starting to become a big problem. The clearest illustration of this being real estate. There are a lot of people getting rich by doing nothing…

Homes are interesting to think about.

Arguably, every time something is bought in the physical world, it comes at the expense of others being able to make use of that resource, not just homes. So I wouldn't say this is relevant to what makes the housing market exploitative. For example, if I buy a standing desk, I've taken it off the market and you can't buy that exact desk I bought anymore, until I want it sell it.

And just like I use my desk most of the time, most property that's purchased is either lived in or rented out. Sure, some properties sit empty, but I think it's the vast minority, I'd guess are making use of the resource both before the sale (via renting) and at the point of the sale (via becoming the new owners).

Plus, many owners do create value via renovations, which makes the property better. But at the very least, you're on the hook as an owner to repair and maintain the quality of the property so it doesn't lose value. You're a steward. That's expensive, and it does create/preserve value. When it comes time to sell, the vast majority of the sale price is just recouping the original amount you paid, anyway.

Still, when we look at the profits on top of that, it is true that much of it doesn't come from people working to create value. Houses tend to appreciate in value due to demand outstripping supply, because more people are moving to (or being born into) a location than there are houses being built there. However, I wouldn't call this exploitation. When this dynamic is at hand, everyone sells their homes for a profit by default, no nefarious or exploitative deeds required. Even if you're buying up properties for the express purpose of selling them later, you're not selling them for any more than they would've eventually been sold by the people you bought from.

Sure, people are creating rich here without creating value, but they're not doing nefarious things. If there's any villain here, imo it's restricting the housing supply, which fucks with the market's ability to provide more supply and keep prices affordable.

IMO there are better examples of nefarious things happening under capitalism. Usually they're monopolistic and anti-competitive: unfair practices to limit supply, to keep competitors out of the market, etc. Buying up patents (artificial monopolies) and then jacking up prices on a drug, for example. Non-competes or unethical collusion between companies to not hire each other's employees. Stuff like that. But it's worth noting that all of this is decided uncapitalistic, because it's anti-competitive. So even these aren't great examples.

I'd say the worst aspects of capitalism that are actually capitalistic are…

1. Creating negative public externalities, e.g. polluting rivers to create your products, then reaping the profits privately but making the costs public. There is always incentive to minimize costs in a capitalistic system, and so it's a natural challenge for governments to identify these externalities and make companies pay.

2. Accruing too much power as a result of having money. Basically, the influence of money on the political and legal system. More money should get you a better life in terms of access to more goods and services, but it shouldn't allow you to lobby for laws, win elections, or win court cases. This is a hard problem to solve, however, and therefore a natural disadvantage of capitalism.

3. Serving the rich. It generally pays more to create products and services for rich people, because they have more money to spend. That's just how the physics of capitalism work out. The result is that poor neighborhoods, cities, and countries have worse infrastructure, fewer stores, etc. Innovative companies simply have less incentive to sell there. I think this is intrinsic to capitalism, and it's a problem, because it means the rich get richer.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#149
post #139

Fought Experiment: Lets say law enforcement was given the task to examine the affairs of 100, randomly selected, poor/medium income households and 100, randomly selected, very wealthy households. Statistically, where would they find the most amount of criminal activity? Has any similar research been done, and would you care to share the data?

These types of statistics are politically inconvinient and will never be reported on.

But the data is out there and Data Scientists are not of the shy type...
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