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New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

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Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#81

Post by nottorp »

JohnHaugeland wrote: post #60
throwaway4good wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if relies on TSMC and IP-blocks purchased from other companies - it is still cool that a 2-year old startup can create graphics card that appears to compete with what giants like NVDIA and AMD are offering.

> can create graphics card that appears to compete with what giants like NVDIA and AMD are offering. uh ... no. six teraflops is a card from 2017.

But the market is how it is. I'm on an 1050Ti. Even this would be an upgrade if price/power consumption is right.

I have strong doubts about power consumption though.

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#82

Post by DethNinja »

MangoCoffee wrote: post #75

would it have any backdoor? https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2021-supermicro/ https://www.phonearena.com/news/xiaomi-browsers-have-backdoo...

Probably, but I would imagine it would be a lower priority compared to NIC or CPU based backdoors.

Considering that China controls most of the NIC supply, I doubt they would be too concerned about implementing a GPU based backdoor.

I’m surprised that we still don’t have a cheap domestic Data Diode option. It is clear that only way to be secure is to never directly connect to internet.

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#83

Post by userbinator »

bcatanzaro wrote: post #17

Importantly, it appears some of their GPU comes from Imagination Technology. https://www.theinformation.com/articles/chinas-little-nvidia...

That company's GPU was used in a few of Intel's early Atom SoCs, and infamously lacked documentation and source code, unlike other Intel GPUs of the time. It was also dismal in performance and efficiency, lacking a blitter and other acceleration for 2D unlike nearly all PC GPUs since the original 8514.

Ironically the source and docs were leaked many years ago, causing a lot of commotion in the OSS community; and more relevantly to this article, a Chinese underground forums community managed to make a decent usable driver for Windows XP, something neither Intel nor Imagination had.

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#84

Post by pfisherman »

nynx wrote: post #41
pfisherman wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Intellectual property frankly makes no sense if you don’t worship money. Patents incentivize inventors to publicly disclose how their inventions work. They publicly disclose how their invention works and in exchange are given exclusive rights to it for a limited period of time. This is predicated on the idea that in the absence of such a system, inventors have strong incentives to not disclose how their inventions…

I agree that was the original intention, but these days (and possibly the entire time) it just slows innovation by preventing people from using technologies.

Yes, patents do hamper innovation. But this does not acknowledge or address the counterfactual of whether not having a patent system would hamper innovation to a greater extent.

Without this the argument rests on an unstated assumption / magical thinking, which is not borne out by historical data.

It’s like saying that traffic lights impede the flow of traffic (true), without acknowledging the fact that not having traffic lights would result in much greater congestion (also true).

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#85

Post by pfisherman »

randomhodler84 wrote: post #45
pfisherman wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Intellectual property frankly makes no sense if you don’t worship money. Patents incentivize inventors to publicly disclose how their inventions work. They publicly disclose how their invention works and in exchange are given exclusive rights to it for a limited period of time. This is predicated on the idea that in the absence of such a system, inventors have strong incentives to not disclose how their inventions…

Open source licensing incentivizes inventors to release their creations to the world to benefit humanity. Their copyright is protected and depending on the license that picked can control redistribution. Their work is protected against people passing their work off as their own, which is the intention of the patent idea. Patents do nothing like this, in fact, they cause inventors to invent around “protected ideas”. T…

> Patents do not achieve their stated goal.

This assertion is being made without evidence.

Can you point to any modern technologically advanced civilizations / nations that do not have something like a patent system? How did those without well developed legal frameworks for intellectual property perform over time relative to others in measures of scientific output and economic development?

What is the alternative? Wouldn’t open source have been the default prior to the invention of patent law?

I am sorry, but if you are arguing for the abolition of the patent system, then you need to provide some alternative solution for the problem the patent system addresses along with some sort of data / evidence that your solution is not vastly inferior. Otherwise the argument is just not very persuasive.

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#86

Post by muizelaar »

userbinator wrote: post #83
bcatanzaro wrote: post #17

Importantly, it appears some of their GPU comes from Imagination Technology. https://www.theinformation.com/articles/chinas-little-nvidia...

That company's GPU was used in a few of Intel's early Atom SoCs, and infamously lacked documentation and source code, unlike other Intel GPUs of the time. It was also dismal in performance and efficiency, lacking a blitter and other acceleration for 2D unlike nearly all PC GPUs since the original 8514. Ironically the source and docs were leaked many years ago, causing a lot of commotion in the OSS community; and more…

Do you have a link to more information on that XP driver?

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#87

Post by throwaway0a5e »

linuxbo wrote: post #77
zitterbewegung wrote: post #76

If it performs similar to a 1060 or 1070 gpu from MVIDIA and has an appropriate price point people who want to create a budget gaming computer would be an appropriate target market.

Why did you call if Mvidia? As a proud owner of a 1070ti, I don't think that's the budget gaming computer.

Probably because M and N are adjacent on most keyboards

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#89

Post by ac29 »

speed_spread wrote: post #73
WithinReason wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right, but then you're building a GPU with 20 year old tech

Even with 20 year old design, you'd be using modern process which in itself should make room for significant improvements in scaling, frequency and power usage.

Yeah, but it would still be stuck at supporting something like DirectX 8 and OpenGL 1.3 (like the GeForce4). It would certainly be faster and more efficient but modern games and other software wouldn't run on it.

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#90

Post by zokier »

linuxbo wrote: post #77
zitterbewegung wrote: post #76

If it performs similar to a 1060 or 1070 gpu from MVIDIA and has an appropriate price point people who want to create a budget gaming computer would be an appropriate target market.

Why did you call if Mvidia? As a proud owner of a 1070ti, I don't think that's the budget gaming computer.

6TFLOPS would be competing against 3050 (9TFLOPS), lowest tier current-gen GPU from nvidia.
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