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Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

businessinsider.co.za

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Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#191

Post by gedy »

vkou wrote: post #186
gedy wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess we'll have to extract these here and manufacture again vs letting NIMBY regulations and cheap labor goons push everything overseas.

So, you're suggesting that we should eat higher costs for everything, lower wages, harder and more dangerous work, and maybe throw in Beijing air quality as a bonus. Which of all of these new, unregulated extraction and manufacturing jobs will you be signing up to do? Will you be doing your fifty hours in the unregulated zinc mine, or your sixty-five in the Nike jeans sweatshop? Productivity isn't like money, you can…

I’m old enough to remember life before PRC manufacturing, and it was just fine. I’m not that old either.

Besides, cost of living isn’t that cheap in the west anyways.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#193

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

Pxtl wrote: post #145
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this guy was going to die anyways, why not save someone's life in the process? because, like private "for profit" prisons, it incentivises bad things. Sci-fi short story on this topic, 1967: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jigsaw_Man

Not just a short, Niven wrote numerous books on the subject. For example, "A Gift From Earth" was about a bloody revolution on a colony planet where the ruling class oppressed the working class via executions through organ harvesting.

True. I have a copy of "A Gift From Earth" here, in the same volume as the "Tales of Known Space" short stories which includes the one mentioned above, and "World of Ptavvs".

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#194

Post by rhn_mk1 »

bllguo wrote: post #188
rhn_mk1 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with the details of the Communist party, but today's China is autocratic. It's a mistake to take the democratic principle of "people can enact change" and take it to an autocratic government (and outright contradiction when using the adjective "totalitarian"). Okay, the government is also "people" in some way. But the "people" who can currently enact change are the ones who benefit from the current g…

1984 was "billions of masses"? None of your examples show the majority will being crushed. Obviously a small movement on the scale of thousands cannot (and should not) overthrow a regime. The point is there is no problem. You'll continue to be popular in your own circles assuming the Chinese people are victimized, but nobody actually from there will care a whit for your paternalism. Frankly if people are going to kee…

1984 could have turned into billions if allowed. A billion-strong movement does not appear fully formed out of the blue.

Also, you ignored the Gwangju one which had an entire city of hundreds of thousands. Or should I mention Hong Kong? At least that failed more peacefully.

I think you're not understanding what it means to live in a regime that tries to police your thoughts. Supporting it means nothing because it's the only way to survive.

As for reconcillation, I say: give them a real voice without fear of prosecution. It's not the case in China today.

The failure in Afghanistan is an example of jumping to conclusions and shortcuts in thinking, just like the grandparent did. I don't know how you managed to equate being thoughtful with invading though.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#195

Post by Ldorigo »

derefr wrote: post #174
Gareth321 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Historians would point toward a pressure toward democratization of states that occurs as the middle class gains more power. Historians would be making the classic correlation|causation fallacy. Your French example is apt because China has created a bourgeoisie class which is also the effective monarchy. Historians might say that China has learned from history and ensured that their powerful class cannot be usurped.…

> China has created a bourgeoisie class which is also the effective monarchy I don’t think you understand the functional meanings of these terms. People like the modern Russian “oligarchs” or their Chinese equivalents are, in function, nobility , whether they are granted any formal titles or not. You’re a noble in function if 1. you helped the current regime gain power; 2. you can use your ongoing necessity to the re…

This was a very interesting clarification, but I don't get the last part. Why would Boeing be nobility?

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#196

Post by planck01 »

next_xibalba wrote: post #52
moistly wrote: post #28

The biggest mistake western democracies have made is to trade with dictatorships. Enriching them has not encouraged them to become progressive, it has only made them more powerful. We have sown the seeds of our own destruction through our complicity.

Strategies that isolate hostile or naturally adversarial countries don't seem to work either. Just look at North Korea. Arguably, the North Korea situation has resulted in much worse net violence and human suffering per capita than, say, the West's fraught trade entanglement with China. > sown the seeds of our own destruction through our complicity The future is unwritten. Actors behave reflexively. Imagine how bad t…

Yeah, but todays nazi's have enough nukes to cover every major city on earth.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#197

Post by convolvatron »

Ldorigo wrote: post #195
derefr wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China has created a bourgeoisie class which is also the effective monarchy I don’t think you understand the functional meanings of these terms. People like the modern Russian “oligarchs” or their Chinese equivalents are, in function, nobility , whether they are granted any formal titles or not. You’re a noble in function if 1. you helped the current regime gain power; 2. you can use your ongoing necessity to the re…

This was a very interesting clarification, but I don't get the last part. Why would Boeing be nobility?

presumably because boeing has influence over government policy.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#198

Post by ComradePhil »

zuppy wrote: post #73
elil17 wrote: post #61

I think execution is absolutely wrong and never morally justifiable. However I don’t see why execution + organ harvesting is worse than execution alone.

because it can be an incentive to kill people for money, due to corruption.

Where's the outrage and incentive debates when fully formed human babies are "aborted" and sent to be burned for biofuel? All done by for-profit companies all the way through. I definitely didn't see it here in HackerNews.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#199

Post by schleyreuth »

VerminOctopus1 wrote: post #149

There’s an unsettling lack of skepticism from the commenters here. If you do the most surface level digging on this, you will find that the author of the study is a shill for anti-China propaganda, usually with a guise of anti-communism. Writing like this is all produced through Washington thinktanks and then pushed to media outlets en masse. Given the source of money and political bent of this material, it’s hard fo…

Study[1] has two authors, second of which is well-qualified[2] to discuss procedures and ethics regarding organ donation. Funding information is listed right after the publication date. It's not hidden information that requires any digging.

If this is sloppy anti-China propaganda as asserted, it should be easy to dismiss. Does it make sense that everyone involved in the review process of the American Journal of Transplantation all share the same political beliefs?

[1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ajt.16969 [2] https://www.eacts.org/faculty/jacob-lavee/

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#200

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

alephnan wrote: post #140
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could all be running operations in Mexico. That could have become the North American SZ.

> They This embeds a colonialist / Western bias presuming that Americans companies are leading the charge and orchestrating everything, and the natives are incapable of self organizing. This is opposed to American companies being customers, and Chinese companies offering them a cheap all inclusive solution with implementation details ( factories / labor ) already sorted out. Since you pointed out Shen Zhen specifical…

Mexico would ultimately benefit from more investment. Throw in the trillions the US has wasted on nation building elsewhere and the Americas could have been built into having much stronger public institutions. It's not like Western Europe doesn't leverage its eastern neighbors and North Africa for cheaper labor.
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