Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says • Hacker News Board

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#151

Post by user_7832 » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 6:15 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #50

alephnan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the west be as rich and Democratic without?

Growth would have been slower sure, but we were doing fine before and we'd have done fine without them, but they would still have rotted and by now may well have been forced to reform through economic failure.

> Growth would have been slower sure, but we were doing fine before and we'd have done fine without them, but they would still have rotted and by now may well have been forced to reform through economic failure.

May I introduce you to... colonialism? See also: how the battle of Plassey and subsequently income from India helped fund the industrial revolution. I can't speak much about Chinese colonial history (I expect it to be roughly about as brutal and violent as Indian colonial history) but boy does your comment ignore several centuries of history.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#152

Post by VerminOctopus1 » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 6:15 PM UTC

737min wrote: post #2

Notable that this is a professional medical association saying this based on a stufy, not a journalist or blogger.

Also notable that the article itself was authored by one person, who works here: https://victimsofcommunism.org/leader/matthew-robertson/

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#153

Post by vkou » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 6:15 PM UTC

moistly wrote: post #28

The biggest mistake western democracies have made is to trade with dictatorships. Enriching them has not encouraged them to become progressive, it has only made them more powerful. We have sown the seeds of our own destruction through our complicity.

If the western world won't trade with dictatorships, where would all the raw resources that make western lifestyles possible are going to come from?

Perhaps you are ready to give up your car, fruit, coffee, electronics, plastics, your detached suburban home, the ability to heat it in winter... And are ready to go work in a clothing sweatshop.

But you'll have a hell of a time convincing your neighbours of this.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#154

Post by alephnan » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 6:18 PM UTC

belter wrote: post #46

alephnan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the west be as rich and Democratic without?

I am afraid the debt is now come due for payment.

Exactly. My point here is that a lot of the Anti-China posters want to disregard and shed American’s responsibility. It’s just China that’s evil. Suddenly now that they’re rich and is/was on trajectory to surpass the United States. Where was the unified stance against China for the half century prior? The West and its consumers used China, but are now mad that the regime has always had its own agenda.

It’s really simple. There’s been decades of opportunity to hold Nike accountable, but people continued to support sweatshop labor. Sweatshop labor is not directly related here, but it supports a system that does not value human lives.

Offshoring labor, out of sight out of mind, to countries like China is a negative externality. Suddenly now China is the only one to blame when the externality is no longer external ( microplastics ).

It would not be hypocritical if countries “internalized their negative externalities”, or maybe just not create negative externalities or internalities in the first place. e.g. demote consumption, but that would not be very American. Just look at the public / self storage industry. Americans have two door garages and that’s still not enough. That part is really not China’s fault, even though they are the enabler.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#155

Post by freyr » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 6:18 PM UTC

1024core wrote: post #109

hbarka wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know anything about Rose Pak but your rumor post feels so vile like political propaganda. Your links have no substantiation whatsoever and you’re comfortable with that?

"vile propaganda"... project much? It clearly says she had gone to China for a kidney transplant: https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Rose-Pak-SF-political-po...

Her connections to mainland China are well documented. From Wikipedia:

“Pak was an overseas executive director of the China Overseas Exchange Association (COEA), an organization overseen by the Overseas Chinese Affairs Office (OCAO) of the State Council of the People's Republic of China.”

“At various times she spoke out in favor of the Chinese government's views, e.g. in 2012 calling all "overseas Chinese" to "defend the homeland” in the conflict about the Diaoyu Islands, and in 2008 opposing a resolution of the SF Board of Supervisors that criticized China for the Tiananmen Square massacre and other repression measures, passed on occasion of the Beijing Summer Olympics torch relay reaching San Francisco.”

“As revealed in a 2018 Politico report after Pak's death, among U.S. intelligence officials "there were widespread concerns that Pak had been co-opted by Chinese intelligence". These also extended to her work in organizing many "junket" trips to China for leading Bay Area politicians.”

Regardless of that, or the source of her kidneys, Pak is a textbook case of political cronyism, and how one person who never held elected office can use financial connections, backroom dealmaking, and sheer force of will to shape elections and policy for decades and steer the direction of a major city.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#156

Post by moistly » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 6:19 PM UTC

pzduniak wrote: post #134

zozbot234 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notably, this model was repeated in East-Asian countries like South Korea and Taiwan. They managed to transition away from authoritarian rule and democratize without any excess of social tensions. More recently, Central-Eastern Europe has also been broadly successful following the fall of Soviet rule. People love to talk about democracy as if it's somehow in decline as of late, but this couldn't be more wrong.

Sure, it worked in Central-Eastern Europe during the early 2000s. "As of late" we're getting democracy-flavoured populism with the governing party restricting free media and repeating divide and conquer campaigns to create a voting bloc that gives them absolute majority. Hungary and Serbia are probably a lost cause at this point. Poland is slowly getting there.

To be honest, the same seems to be happening over here in America.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#157

Post by adhesive_wombat » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 6:22 PM UTC

VerminOctopus1 wrote: post #149

There’s an unsettling lack of skepticism from the commenters here. If you do the most surface level digging on this, you will find that the author of the study is a shill for anti-China propaganda, usually with a guise of anti-communism. Writing like this is all produced through Washington thinktanks and then pushed to media outlets en masse. Given the source of money and political bent of this material, it’s hard fo…

Also remember that billions of dollars have been explicitly assigned by US legislation in the last couple of years for what is, basically, propaganda: the 2021 Strategic Competition Act gives $300 million per year for 4 years, the COMPETES act gives another $500 million.

I don't know if you can say where it goes exactly, but just bear in mind that there is at a billion dollars' worth of anti-China stuff sloshing about somewhere in "the media" that was funded directly, and purposefully, from Congress, and who knows how much from less direct sources.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#158

Post by gedy » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 6:22 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #153

moistly wrote: post #28

The biggest mistake western democracies have made is to trade with dictatorships. Enriching them has not encouraged them to become progressive, it has only made them more powerful. We have sown the seeds of our own destruction through our complicity.

If the western world won't trade with dictatorships, where would all the raw resources that make western lifestyles possible are going to come from? Perhaps you are ready to give up your car, fruit, coffee, electronics, plastics, your detached suburban home, the ability to heat it in winter... And are ready to go work in a clothing sweatshop. But you'll have a hell of a time convincing your neighbours of this.

I guess we'll have to extract these here and manufacture again vs letting NIMBY regulations and cheap labor goons push everything overseas.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#159

Post by systemvoltage » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 6:23 PM UTC

moistly wrote: post #139

alephnan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the west be as rich and Democratic without?

I think we’d be way better off if our manufacturing jobs had stayed on our turf. Yes, things might be more expensive, but we’d also have many more people being paid good wages, we would have reduced GINI inequality issues, we would have better supply-line security, we well might have more workers unions, and we would be more incentivized to reduce our pollution. We would, on average, be richer and more democratic if…

The billionaires of America/EU sold its soul to dictatorships.

The rust belt is struggling and the rise of Trump was direct consequence of that.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#160

Post by pharke » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 6:24 PM UTC

belter wrote: post #117

alephnan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the west be as rich and Democratic without?

Without the exploitation of cheap labor and China work practices, your iPhone would cost 10,000 dollars. Apple would be more like a Cartier or Tiffany...A few small exclusive shops around Monaco and the Cote de Azur.

Without the exploitation of cheap labor and China work practices, we would have been motivated to automate the manufacturing process and your iPhone would cost 100 dollars.