Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says • Hacker News Board

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#101

Post by Borrible » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:46 PM UTC

I suspect that Chinese law enforcement agencies are offering death row inmates conducive "incentives" and "arguments" to strengthen their good will to cooperate.

After all, it is for a good cause and in a certain moral sense to make amends for their sins against the communist body of the people. A bit like an eye for an eye, but more visceral. Scientific socialism at its best.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170207112528/https://www.hrw.o...

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#102

Post by belter » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:47 PM UTC

beeboop wrote: post #86

belter wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you travel to another country, and come back with new kidneys specially when you are already of old age and so not so high on a donation waiting list?

Is there something about being old that prevents you from traveling on planes or receiving organ transplants?

No. But China had very recently only 31 ( yes 31 ) persons officially registered as organ donor. So how do you travel to another country, and come back with new organs that fast? How do you jump the queue? In the West you are even refused a heart transplant if you are not vaccinated for Covid...

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#103

Post by mrjangles » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:48 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #47

moistly wrote: post #28

The biggest mistake western democracies have made is to trade with dictatorships. Enriching them has not encouraged them to become progressive, it has only made them more powerful. We have sown the seeds of our own destruction through our complicity.

Historians would point toward a pressure toward democratization of states that occurs as the middle class gains more power. Countries like France and Britain didn't suddenly decide on "parliamentary democracy" as a model out of nowhere; they developed a parliament first, when they were still monarchies, and then the parliament suppressed the monarch. The second estate (nobility) of these countries, which previously f…

This is historically accurate, sure, but from what I have seen the current ruling class in the West has used this as a cheap excuse at best. It certainly seems to me that they have simply been selling our cultural and technological heritage away to line their pockets. The fact that a lot of these people would prefer a society run the way China is run also helped in getting them to support China too.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#104

Post by 0des » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:49 PM UTC

guai888 wrote: post #26

0des wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pragmatic

There are line that we should not cross and this is one of them. What CCP has done is inhuman.

What's all this 'we' shit? I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm explaining how to them it could make sense

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#105

Post by conradev » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:50 PM UTC

1024core wrote: post #30

I know of one person (my friend's mom) who literally got this procedure done: she needed a new kidney, and they waited till a death row convict came along who was a match. When she was matched, she got a phone call to come over to that particular city quickly, and she went there, and came back a few days later with a brand new pair of kidneys. It was almost like when you give your car in for repair, and when it's rea…

If you read the linked Al Jazeera article, it has more information:

> The 71 cases in question all occurred between 1980 and 2015, an important cut-off date as it was also the year China officially banned organ harvesting from condemned prisoners. Before then, most organ transplants in China were believed to have come from executed convicts because voluntary organ donation was extremely limited.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#106

Post by alephnan » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:51 PM UTC

belter wrote: post #85

elil17 wrote: post #61

I think execution is absolutely wrong and never morally justifiable. However I don’t see why execution + organ harvesting is worse than execution alone.

They were still alive...

It was an execution...

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#107

Post by ricardobayes » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:51 PM UTC

No post body was provided.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#108

Post by csee » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:52 PM UTC

Gareth321 wrote: post #80

derefr wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historians would point toward a pressure toward democratization of states that occurs as the middle class gains more power. Countries like France and Britain didn't suddenly decide on "parliamentary democracy" as a model out of nowhere; they developed a parliament first, when they were still monarchies, and then the parliament suppressed the monarch. The second estate (nobility) of these countries, which previously f…

>Historians would point toward a pressure toward democratization of states that occurs as the middle class gains more power. Historians would be making the classic correlation|causation fallacy. Your French example is apt because China has created a bourgeoisie class which is also the effective monarchy. Historians might say that China has learned from history and ensured that their powerful class cannot be usurped.…

> I think it much more convincing that social values determine the direction in which a country allows government to rule them.

There's some truth to this, but you can do event studies to show that economic conditions play a very large causal role too. e.g. the massive quantitative spike in Hitler's popularity 1 year into the depression (this is the main data point I want to bring up, because it's quantifiable by polling numbers), or the 1917 Russian Revolution which only was successful because of the dire conditions brought about due to WW1, or the CCP only getting into power because of Japanese occupation and degradation of the KMT.

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#109

Post by 1024core » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:52 PM UTC

hbarka wrote: post #56

1024core wrote: post #30

I know of one person (my friend's mom) who literally got this procedure done: she needed a new kidney, and they waited till a death row convict came along who was a match. When she was matched, she got a phone call to come over to that particular city quickly, and she went there, and came back a few days later with a brand new pair of kidneys. It was almost like when you give your car in for repair, and when it's rea…

I don’t know anything about Rose Pak but your rumor post feels so vile like political propaganda. Your links have no substantiation whatsoever and you’re comfortable with that?

"vile propaganda"... project much?

It clearly says she had gone to China for a kidney transplant: https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Rose-Pak-SF-political-po...

Re: Chinese inmates had hearts or lungs removed during executions, study says

#110

Post by 1024core » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 5:52 PM UTC

belter wrote: post #81

hbarka wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know anything about Rose Pak but your rumor post feels so vile like political propaganda. Your links have no substantiation whatsoever and you’re comfortable with that?

How do you travel to another country, and come back with new kidneys specially when you are already of old age and so not so high on a donation waiting list?

> not so high on a donation waiting list?

The CCP will move you to the top of this list if you're powerful and well-connected, as she was.