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Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

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Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#21

Post by sho_hn »

ceejayoz wrote: post #13
ars wrote: post #8

There's no point in doing this, COVID will spread until everyone gets it at least once. You just want to slow it down not to overwhelm hospitals and that it's. And if you immunize everyone there's very few hospitalizations. Just make vaccines available - you don't even need to mandate them, most people will take them, and that's good enough.

Part of the problem is China's vaccine is substantially less effective than the mRNA ones. "Just make vaccines available" works less for them than it does in, say, the US.

What happened to Fosun licensing the BioNTech mRNA vaccine?

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#22

Post by triyambakam »

dayofthedaleks wrote: post #17
miked85 wrote: post #14

I haven't seen yet why China is going into lockdown again. Is there a new variant?

The Sinovac vaccine isnt effective against recent variants, so it's 2020 all over again until mRNA tech becomes available. Also many older people aren't vaccinated.

Have we been looking at different data? I don't see how any mRNA product has performed significantly better.

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#23

Post by itstheccp »

miked85 wrote: post #14

I haven't seen yet why China is going into lockdown again. Is there a new variant?

No, they're locking down over Omicron, which is a cold that none of the vaccines prevent. That's what authoritarian countries do, they repeal the freedoms of their subjects arbitrarily.

This is why it's absolutely insane that the free world followed the Chinese playbook at the beginning of the pandemic, even for a minute.

The CCP wants zero COVID and if they need to have another Great Leap Forward to get it, well, nobody will miss the "COVID deniers" in their society anyway.

Remember their war on sparrows? Starving their citizens to protect them from a cold is completely on brand for the communist Chinese -- they promised zero COVID and the Party will lose face if it isn't achieved, so it must be achieved, at any cost.

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#24

Post by wellthatsawrap »

eric-hu wrote: post #16
ceejayoz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is China's vaccine is substantially less effective than the mRNA ones. "Just make vaccines available" works less for them than it does in, say, the US.

Another part of the problem is that China forbids Chinese citizens from getting foreign made vaccines. They’ve acquired them, but only allow foreigners to get them.

[flagged]

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#25

Post by GekkePrutser »

robonerd wrote: post #18
miked85 wrote: post #14

I haven't seen yet why China is going into lockdown again. Is there a new variant?

Supposing there were a new variant, or some new illness entirely, recent history suggests the CCP would sooner try to suppress it themselves than admit it publicly. So... maybe.

Don't forget that China still tries for a zero covid strategy even with variants that are unlikely to overload the health system like Omicron. So whether it's Omicron or a new variant, their response would be the same.

Sooner or later they'll have to open up like we did (and things are going just fine). But I think it's a PR issue, they've been preaching the zero covid so long.. They care a lot about their reputation.

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#26

Post by vkou »

robonerd wrote: post #3
kodah wrote: post #2

This is a good reminder that COVID isn't over. I am surprised to read there's guards at the front of people's neighborhoods though. I don't know how I feel about that.

COVID is pretty much over, lockdowns and mask mandates are being lifted around the free world. However authoritarian governments will likely continue to use it as a lame excuse for years to come.

'Covid is over', yet daily case counts are higher than at any point in time except during the first omicron surge. Over 1 million a day, at the moment.

The only thing that's over is the media's interest in talking about it, over other vitally important topics, like Will Smith.

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#27

Post by JamisonM »

ars wrote: post #8

There's no point in doing this, COVID will spread until everyone gets it at least once. You just want to slow it down not to overwhelm hospitals and that it's. And if you immunize everyone there's very few hospitalizations. Just make vaccines available - you don't even need to mandate them, most people will take them, and that's good enough.

"COVID will spread until everyone gets it at least once"

Unfortunately evidence seems to indicate that everyone getting once is also not very effective, the reinfection protection of past infection seems to be sub-20% from Omicron. You can find lots of studies with different numbers but none of them are good.

China's behaviour with respect to vaccines is very strange, they could mandate vaccination very easily, they could also relent and import mRNA vaccines but they don't. It seems like even mandating their very poor vaccines would be helping their situation a lot if it had been done months ago - availability has not been enough.

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#28

Post by blablablub »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #25
robonerd wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supposing there were a new variant, or some new illness entirely, recent history suggests the CCP would sooner try to suppress it themselves than admit it publicly. So... maybe.

Don't forget that China still tries for a zero covid strategy even with variants that are unlikely to overload the health system like Omicron. So whether it's Omicron or a new variant, their response would be the same. Sooner or later they'll have to open up like we did (and things are going just fine). But I think it's a PR issue, they've been preaching the zero covid so long.. They care a lot about their reputation…

The current omicron cases are already overloading the health system in Shanghai. and that are only about 5000 cases.

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#29

Post by etaioinshrdlu »

Cerium wrote: post #19
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #12

I believe this will lead to anyone in China (Chinese or otherwise) to permanently leave the country if they are able.

Currently you can't get out unless you have a business, student visa or permanent residence permit. The word is that tourist visa holders will be denied exit. Getting in is also very arduous.

I get the feeling that the public consciousness in the West may still be underestimating and excusing a dismal regime.

Typically I hear, "but the CCP lifted a billion people out of poverty!"

Re: Trapped in lockdown, Shanghai residents turn to WeChat groups for food

#30

Post by GekkePrutser »

ars wrote: post #8

There's no point in doing this, COVID will spread until everyone gets it at least once. You just want to slow it down not to overwhelm hospitals and that it's. And if you immunize everyone there's very few hospitalizations. Just make vaccines available - you don't even need to mandate them, most people will take them, and that's good enough.

We know that. China knows that.. I bet they're just trying to work on a narrative that doesn't paint the party in a bad light. I think they've kinda painted themselves in a corner.

Mind you, zero covid could have worked at the start. If it never left Wuhan it may have worked. But the whole world had to have been on board. And after the first 2 months that ship has sailed forever.

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