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Back to India

yugal.me

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Re: Back to India

#271

Post by krzyk »

1024core wrote: post #265
krzyk wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be hard because India likes to buy from Russia recently and doesn't see a problem with invasion.

Comments like this make me really mad. Do you know that Europe is _still_ buying from Russia?? Do you know that the US is also _still_ buying from Russia?? India does about $8Bn/year of trade with Russia. That's peanuts. And nearly 50% of the tankers carrying Russian oil are Greek; and yet you don't hear a word about Greece.

Issue is that India started new trade with Russia, it is not dependent on it (like Europe, I don't know what the heck US is doing), they just jumped on opportunity. And Europe works hard on stopping that, but it is a bit hard to stop e.g. gas import if your own supply won't be able to heat people homes (it is not India, in Europe we are just starting spring, but still temperatures can hit freezing point).

I didn't know about Greece, I was wondering how in the world was Russia transporting that oil and wheat.

Re: Back to India

#272

Post by warner_of_doom »

krzyk wrote: post #267
yumraj wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always the reality is complicated, and yes, India does see a problem with the invasion. India is not like China where the media is openly supporting the Russian narrative. India is merely keeping quiet, with many in the media telling it to take a more open position against Russia. India has massive dependency on Russian military hardware and spare parts. So what should it do, just break off with Russia over a war…

Whole Eastern Europe has mostly Russian military hardware and guess what, we are basically enemies with Russia and we manage. We buy new equipment from Western countries now but large majority of equipment is still Soviet made. Choices. BTW. Regarding the oil and gas, India started buying when it didn't need to . EU is dependent on that oil and gas (Eastern Europe was forced on that dependency, Westerners stupidly jo…

India needs cheap oil and gas to make fertilizers to feed its population.

You are free and rich enough to do this, be my guest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD_6L_ktkM8

Re: Back to India

#273

Post by warner_of_doom »

krzyk wrote: post #263
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany continues to buy oil from Russia too, but I never see them being criticized for it. They bought oil for decades from Russia, arguably funding the current invasion, yet that was held up as a shining example of how interdepenence via trading can maintain peace between nations. There's always a double standard at play. For EU, buying oil is a necessary evil. For India, it's "supporting" the enemy.

You didn't see Germany criticized for buying oil from Russia? Boy, they are the most criticized country for doing that (and oil and gas) - they basically enabled Russia to do the invasion. Nord Stream 1 and 2 come to mind. They made themselves (and few other countries) dependent on that bloody import. India received Lawrow recently, he is not allowed in any EU country. But there is a difference in long dependency and…

> India received Lawrow recently, he is not allowed in any EU country.

And? Your point? Speaking to diplomats is suddenly taboo?

> India is not dependent on Russian oil

No. But, it is dependent on oil and gas being cheap enough to make basic inputs with. It is a region and country on the brink of poverty in many ways. What did you expect?

Re: Back to India

#274

Post by ddaalluu2 »

krzyk wrote: post #271
1024core wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like this make me really mad. Do you know that Europe is _still_ buying from Russia?? Do you know that the US is also _still_ buying from Russia?? India does about $8Bn/year of trade with Russia. That's peanuts. And nearly 50% of the tankers carrying Russian oil are Greek; and yet you don't hear a word about Greece.

Issue is that India started new trade with Russia, it is not dependent on it (like Europe, I don't know what the heck US is doing), they just jumped on opportunity. And Europe works hard on stopping that, but it is a bit hard to stop e.g. gas import if your own supply won't be able to heat people homes (it is not India, in Europe we are just starting spring, but still temperatures can hit freezing point). I didn't kn…

I don't see a problem in trade with Russia. We certainly don't have the moral high ground, also trade is good for peace and living standards.

Re: Back to India

#275

Post by hemreldop »

mongol wrote: post #266
ra7 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but that doesn’t come close to supporting the war. On the other hand, they’ve provided considerable humanitarian assistance to Ukraine. For better or worse, that’s just the situation — economic and geopolitical — India is in. They don’t have the luxury of looking at things black and white like most western nations.

The situation in Ukraine is more black and white than most others. That India can't recognize that both surprised me and disappointed me. It would make a big difference if they dared to speak out against Russian agression. Even if they would like to remain on friendly terms with Russia they should recognize the atrociousy which Russia displays in Ukraine. Putin needs to hear it also from India.

[flagged]

Re: Back to India

#276

Post by mama123 »

nindalf wrote: post #70
rognjen wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd benefit the discussion in a forum filled with non-Indians if you explained what he meant. But I assume it's a caste-thing...

It would benefit the non Indians, certainly. And it’d also get me flagged. But what the hell, I’ll say it. OP is an upper caste male. You won’t see many “India is doing great! I’m heading back there!” posts from Indian women or Indian Muslims or Indian Dalits. That’s what I meant. I’m similar to the OP in that I’m an upper caste male as well. The difference between me and him is that I can understand and empathise wi…

My suspicion here is that most people who bring up "caste" or Anti-Modi here on HN are not Hindus at all.

Usually "upper caste" christians, Ashraf muslims/Paki or pro-congress children of super rich or super powerful bureaucrats who benefited greatly from the previous corrupt regime.

Re: Back to India

#277

Post by SkyMarshal »

qiskit wrote: post #232
SkyMarshal wrote: post #210

> the insane opportunities available in India now [3]. > India’s rising startup and tech wave > Massive switch from wealth accumulation mode to wealth creation mode. > And the amount of VC funding in India combined with the startup ecosystem’s energy here is absolute fire > The collective risk appetite has never been higher. > The step after the ‘American dream’ is the ‘Indian dream’. This is great to hear about Indi…

> This is great to hear about India. It is and I hope india is able to develop. > The more developed and economically successful the world’s largest democracy is, the better for the world in general. Who cares whether india is a democracy or not? It's so odd people parrot the propaganda so religiously. Every post about india inevitably mentions something about india being the largest democracy. Who cares? If india wa…

> Who cares whether india is a democracy or not?

Every human being on the planet who doesn't want to live in a dictatorship subject to the whims of one or few strongmen, or to be disappeared with no legal recourse for saying or thinking the wrong thing, or to have the valuable things they've built stolen by the unaccountable powerful.

There was a brief interregnum to history after the fall of the USSR, where we all thought authoritarianism would disappear if we just all get rich together, and that the culmination of human social evolution was liberal democracy and free markets.

Unfortunately none of that is true, and authoritarianism is on the rise again. You can pretend not to see it or that it doesn't matter if you wish, but that won't change the reality.

And Russia is no longer a democracy, the US has never attacked Japan post-WWII, and US has been extremely generous to China until Xi Jinping took over and began his campaign of regional and world domination.

Re: Back to India

#278

Post by warner_of_doom »

multjoy wrote: post #235
qiskit wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is great to hear about India. It is and I hope india is able to develop. > The more developed and economically successful the world’s largest democracy is, the better for the world in general. Who cares whether india is a democracy or not? It's so odd people parrot the propaganda so religiously. Every post about india inevitably mentions something about india being the largest democracy. Who cares? If india wa…

>Who cares whether india is a democracy or not? Anybody who wants to do business. Democracies have stable, predictable rule of law. Do you want to invest in a country where a dictator could simply decide that he is going take your assets?

TWN, SK, and JPN were all authoritarian when industrializing. Similar with US too, to be honest.

Re: Back to India

#279

Post by yumraj »

krzyk wrote: post #267
yumraj wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always the reality is complicated, and yes, India does see a problem with the invasion. India is not like China where the media is openly supporting the Russian narrative. India is merely keeping quiet, with many in the media telling it to take a more open position against Russia. India has massive dependency on Russian military hardware and spare parts. So what should it do, just break off with Russia over a war…

Whole Eastern Europe has mostly Russian military hardware and guess what, we are basically enemies with Russia and we manage. We buy new equipment from Western countries now but large majority of equipment is still Soviet made. Choices. BTW. Regarding the oil and gas, India started buying when it didn't need to . EU is dependent on that oil and gas (Eastern Europe was forced on that dependency, Westerners stupidly jo…

> Whole Eastern Europe has mostly Russian military hardware and guess what, we are basically enemies with Russia and we manage.

There is a difference: you don’t have a choice, Russia is the enemy as well as from where where you’d sourced hardware. Moreover, per my understanding, a lot of hardware and spares are manufactured in E. Eu, due to Soviet era, so things are slightly better due to that.

India is different, the enemy is China-Pak nexus. Russia has never been India’s enemy, rather has been friendly as a counter against US which for decades was more friendly towards Pak and even China. Kissinger hated India for some reason. Also, India doesn’t manufacture a lot of spares for military hardware. India is trying to reduce dependency on Russian crap by buying from West, note the Rafale deal. So it will happen, it will just take time. Note: India has the 2nd largest army in the world, so things take time.

> India started buying when it didn't need to

India started buying exactly when it needed to, when the price went over $100 a barrel which has a huge economic impact. Just like Eu is still buying Russian oil and gas. It’s not fair to express your own reasons while not understanding the other’s.

No one in India is doing this out of love for Russia, the history is in the past, but out of strategic reasons - which is what countries do.

Re: Back to India

#280

Post by krzyk »

ddaalluu2 wrote: post #274
krzyk wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Issue is that India started new trade with Russia, it is not dependent on it (like Europe, I don't know what the heck US is doing), they just jumped on opportunity. And Europe works hard on stopping that, but it is a bit hard to stop e.g. gas import if your own supply won't be able to heat people homes (it is not India, in Europe we are just starting spring, but still temperatures can hit freezing point). I didn't kn…

I don't see a problem in trade with Russia. We certainly don't have the moral high ground, also trade is good for peace and living standards.

Europe also thought that trade is good for peace, but it is not if you trade with some countries with long history of double crossing others.
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