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An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

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Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#311

Post by techolic »

imiric wrote: post #273

> People are finding out that state media exists not for accurate news, but only to spin reality into a narrative that fits the powers higher up. Are people really finding that out only now? I thought that this was generally accepted knowledge even in China, despite the constant fear and propaganda they live with. What's happening now with the strict lockdowns and zero-Covid policy is inhumane. People are literally p…

> Are people really finding that out only now? I thought that this was generally accepted knowledge even in China, despite the constant fear and propaganda they live with.

Yes and no. You see, 2 decades ago probably half of my peers had that knowledge, that was when the internet was pretty much uncensored compared to how it is today. Over the years they get converted by the narrative and now it's probably 5% or even less that keeps a critical mind when reading anything from anywhere, which is, your know, all censored.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#312

Post by fuckyah »

imiric wrote: post #273

> People are finding out that state media exists not for accurate news, but only to spin reality into a narrative that fits the powers higher up. Are people really finding that out only now? I thought that this was generally accepted knowledge even in China, despite the constant fear and propaganda they live with. What's happening now with the strict lockdowns and zero-Covid policy is inhumane. People are literally p…

No post body was provided.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#313

Post by neither_color »

bigDinosaur wrote: post #193
geraldyo wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think they wouldn't be able to keep you inside a house?

It'd be almost impossible to police, although you could in theory do it. An apartment building can have its main doors locked and bolted and guarded by a few police and that might trap hundreds of people.

In the short term it might work but if people start literally starving there's one tool that Americans are more likely to have and might start using. It would be total chaos.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#314

Post by usaar333 »

mike_h wrote: post #161

I’m in Shanghai too. It’s a city of 25+ million people: there will be some bad stories. But overall it is running remarkably and the vast majority of people aren’t thinking about how oppressed they are by having to eat fish. They’re helping each other and encouraging each other, because they know the cost of not doing this is millions of lives.

Anecdotes are anecdotes. Everyone I know thinks it's dumb.

Also, millions of people would not die from covid if China did nothing. If you go by UK data and extrapolate, it's somewhere in the range of 400k.

Assuming an average of 10 years of life lost, that's about 4 million QALY. Shanghai's lockdown alone already has cost half a million QALY (interpreting being locked down as not quality life) and as it's not about to end anytime soon, is going to push well over a million. Given that it's pretty unreasonable to believe China can get away with a zero-covid policy without these continuing harsh lockdowns every month or so somewhere, there's little case for "lockdown" over "let it rip".

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#315

Post by selimthegrim »

Laforet wrote: post #65
jdrc wrote: post #26

Little weird to be talking about peopel starving and lacking meds, but then again they re able to find fresh fish. Anyway, i wonder what this pattern of isolatation can create in terms of covid variants which may develop in china or australia but which haven't been introduced to the rest of world this season.

China had administered more than 2 billion doses of vaccines using alum based adjuvant. This combined with the very low level of prior infection is theoretically the perfect breeding ground for a different serotype of Covid. Time will tell of this turns out to be the case

What’s so special about the adjuvant?

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#316

Post by maxerickson »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #289
joyeuse6701 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccines do not prevent infection but reduce the ultimate harm of the infection.

This position leads to inevitable follow up question: if vaccination reduces only personal risks, and does not prevent infection spread, why forcing it on anyone? If a person is unwilling to vaccinate and accepts the higher risk of a negative outcome, let him decide for himself, no?

The vaccines do reduce transmission, even if they don't prevent it.

You have to pretty much be willfully ignoring this fact to not understand it at this point.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#317

Post by grapescheesee »

simonh wrote: post #205
ascar wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From GP comment it sounded like there are multiple mom's with infants in the building and statistically most of them should be breastfeeding. So if I run out of formula another mom is probably the best solution to not let my baby starve.

Sure, that's fair enough.

And unreal to even be having a conversation about.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#318

Post by nonrandomstring »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #38
nonrandomstring wrote: post #33

Everyone here is commenting on Covid, vaccines, social policy and whatnot. I can't help but see a different, bigger and human story here. It's about how the systems people erect around themselves turn against them. Gated communities whose guards become jailers. Convenient fast food delivery systems that become tools of rationing and siege. News and communications systems turned to propaganda and social control. Meanw…

> It's about how the systems people erect around themselves turn against them. Gated communities whose guards become jailers. Historically this is backwards. 小区 existed in the Tang dynasty much as they do today, but the gate was not operated at the direction of the residents - there was a curfew, and if you lived in a 小区 you had to obey it. If you lived in a house that opened directly onto the street, you were exempt…

That is interesting. But surely you're talking of things that happened thousands of years ago. Are you saying that modern Chinese people are generally comfortable living in conditions approximate to imprisonment? Is the Great Wall really like the Iron Curtain, there to keep its citizens inside?

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#319

Post by [deleted] »

imiric wrote: post #273

> People are finding out that state media exists not for accurate news, but only to spin reality into a narrative that fits the powers higher up. Are people really finding that out only now? I thought that this was generally accepted knowledge even in China, despite the constant fear and propaganda they live with. What's happening now with the strict lockdowns and zero-Covid policy is inhumane. People are literally p…

[deleted]

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#320

Post by kurthr »

tangsanqian wrote: post #234

As a Chinese, I can say that the situation is worse than it in the article. My brother is a student who lives in a flat and has not eaten for two days and no one has brought basic substances. He can't leave the flat, he turns to his tutor but his tutor is also forced to stay at home (eating instant noodles every day). We are worried about him but there is nothing we can do, if we criticise the government on chinese T…

Yes, and anyone without a Shanghai hukou (identity card) is not even allowed to get government food. That is a LOT of people in the Shanghai region. I wish the best for everyone stuck there.
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