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An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

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Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#51

Post by Reason077 »

threatripper wrote: post #37
geokon wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you feel the "choice" with vaccines was? So even if they overlooked the politics/"optics", I don't think they could go to the Western pharmaceutical companies and just ask for 3 billion doses. With boosters it's looking like there isn't enough vaccine capacity for the world as it is. I don't think there was ever a real alternative other than a "zero covid strategy" What seems strange is that they haven't been…

> I don't think they could go to the Western pharmaceutical companies and just ask for 3 billion doses. Ramping up production was a problem in the beginning but now it should not be a problem to produce enough shots to supply China. Even a single shot mRNA would improve immunity by a lot when combined with other vaccines. If China had ordered it in 2020 they would have received multiple doses per person by now. I hav…

> "I have no idea why mRNA failed in China."

Classic case of "not invented here" syndrome?

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#54

Post by jokethrowaway »

laurent92 wrote: post #41
nonrandomstring wrote: post #33

Everyone here is commenting on Covid, vaccines, social policy and whatnot. I can't help but see a different, bigger and human story here. It's about how the systems people erect around themselves turn against them. Gated communities whose guards become jailers. Convenient fast food delivery systems that become tools of rationing and siege. News and communications systems turned to propaganda and social control. Meanw…

Let’s take time to discuss this, as it’s easier to discuss when it happens to another country with an entirely different social system. I was surprised, last year, that techniques we were condescending about, and saying it only happens in China, were applied in Europe and USA. As if it was an emergent property of a human group facing a new disease.

It's because our own political apparatus is not that different from the Chinese one. We just like to pretend we still have a choice with our "democratic vote".

You won't be able to dismantle it or even to reduce the huge amount of money it consumes.

You won't be able to escape its rules. We should be thankful we're still able to leave for the least worse country.

The real disease is called statalism and we're seeing the symptoms of that.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#55

Post by tenpies »

Reason077 wrote: post #50
threatripper wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hong Kong had the highest death rate per capita globally in the last weeks when their containment policy failed. Leading to a mortality of over 0.1% in a short time. Hong Kong is a very rich area. Many other areas would fare much worse. The rest of the world is not "all-in" with vaccines. Vaccines are combined with waves of infection for the unvaccinated and vaccinated which lead to the death of 0.1% to 0.6% of the p…

> "Hong Kong is a very rich area. Many other areas would fare much worse." Being rich or poor doesn't have too much to do with it. Hong Kong is badly affected because it has a very high population density combined with low vaccination rates.

Wealth did have a very strong effect, just not the one we usually see.

Poorer countries faired better against the disease itself: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-confirmed-deaths-of...

And it's not population density either, otherwise Bangladesh and India would be leading the packs in deaths, but they're comfortably in the middle while much of Europe pushes the top.

Where this falls apart is in government reaction to the disease, that has absolutely eviscerated the middle and poor classes.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#56

Post by threatripper »

CommanderData wrote: post #52

The shear size of some of these provinces make the logistical challenge of food delivery almost impossibile. This is horrifying and to think people are starving in these conditions with no option but to run away with dire consequences.

> The shear size of some of these provinces make the logistical challenge of food delivery almost impossibile.

This kind of argument sounds like a logical fallacy to me. Sure, if a single person or organization suddenly needs to supply a large area it's a logistical nightmare. For example if the USA would suddenly need to supply hundreds of millions of people in China. But that is not the case. In those areas the logistical systems have grown together with the area.

If you really think about it there is nowhere in this world where many people could run away to. Sure, there are a few nice places where a few people could run away to. But in total most people will have to stay where they are. If the logistical systems of the world fail or a massive natural disaster occurs many areas will have a lot of starving people.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#57

Post by 6thaccount »

rtpg wrote: post #45
laurent92 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s take time to discuss this, as it’s easier to discuss when it happens to another country with an entirely different social system. I was surprised, last year, that techniques we were condescending about, and saying it only happens in China, were applied in Europe and USA. As if it was an emergent property of a human group facing a new disease.

Talks about how magic money doesn’t exist but then printing out checks for everyone and it materially helping loads of people was definitely an Overton window shifter as well. There are principles and a status quo, and it always stays the same… until it changes.

No post body was provided.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#58

Post by [deleted] »

jdrc wrote: post #26

Little weird to be talking about peopel starving and lacking meds, but then again they re able to find fresh fish. Anyway, i wonder what this pattern of isolatation can create in terms of covid variants which may develop in china or australia but which haven't been introduced to the rest of world this season.

[deleted]

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#59

Post by jsemrau »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #33

Everyone here is commenting on Covid, vaccines, social policy and whatnot. I can't help but see a different, bigger and human story here. It's about how the systems people erect around themselves turn against them. Gated communities whose guards become jailers. Convenient fast food delivery systems that become tools of rationing and siege. News and communications systems turned to propaganda and social control. Meanw…

>Gated communities whose guards become jailers.

Left Singapore after 10 years because of this. If you go into a shopping mall you need to "check in" fully authenticated with picture ID, "ambassadors" photograph any perceived violations, work from home is the standard. With the never-changing weather that was hard on the mental health. Surely, the rules have relaxed now, but that wasn't a fun experience.

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