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An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

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Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#31

Post by geokon »

threatripper wrote: post #17
grecy wrote: post #2

The rest of the world seems to have gone all-in with vaccines and are now moving away from lockdowns. Why are China sticking to the lockdown route?

Hong Kong had the highest death rate per capita globally in the last weeks when their containment policy failed. Leading to a mortality of over 0.1% in a short time. Hong Kong is a very rich area. Many other areas would fare much worse. The rest of the world is not "all-in" with vaccines. Vaccines are combined with waves of infection for the unvaccinated and vaccinated which lead to the death of 0.1% to 0.6% of the p…

What do you feel the "choice" with vaccines was? So even if they overlooked the politics/"optics", I don't think they could go to the Western pharmaceutical companies and just ask for 3 billion doses. With boosters it's looking like there isn't enough vaccine capacity for the world as it is. I don't think there was ever a real alternative other than a "zero covid strategy"

What seems strange is that they haven't been able to quickly make an mRNA vaccine of their own. Supposedly South Africa has managed to pull it off, and I'd guess China has a much more advanced research/production capacity. Though it's also very possible it's happening and I just haven't heard of it :)

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#32

Post by rosndo »

ATsch wrote: post #18
grecy wrote: post #2

The rest of the world seems to have gone all-in with vaccines and are now moving away from lockdowns. Why are China sticking to the lockdown route?

The market has a lot less strong of a grip on society so it is less urgent to simply wish the virus away by reopening everything at a huge human cost.

Keeping everything locked down has a huge human cost too. Quite possibly even bigger than “wishing the virus away”.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#33

Post by nonrandomstring »

Everyone here is commenting on Covid, vaccines, social policy and whatnot.

I can't help but see a different, bigger and human story here.

It's about how the systems people erect around themselves turn against them. Gated communities whose guards become jailers. Convenient fast food delivery systems that become tools of rationing and siege. News and communications systems turned to propaganda and social control.

Meanwhile the only good vibe in here is the person-to-person charity and sharing that occurs amongst the "prisoners".

We should look at this and learn a very important lesson as technologists.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#34

Post by csee »

drumhead wrote: post #7

They dont seem to be able to organise a lockdown properly do they?

A hard lockdown being needed at this late stage in the pandemic signals poor decision making more than anything. Why aren't their elderly widely vaccinated, and why are they still relying on their significantly worse domestically made vaccine?

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#35

Post by magpi3 »

grecy wrote: post #2

The rest of the world seems to have gone all-in with vaccines and are now moving away from lockdowns. Why are China sticking to the lockdown route?

This article makes a nice point:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/08/opinions/china-xi-zero-covid-...

TLDR: Xi Jin Ping will soon be up for his third term, and he has staked his legacy at least in part on how well China has handled COVID. There will be no changes in China's COVID policy anytime soon.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#36

Post by csee »

threatripper wrote: post #17
grecy wrote: post #2

The rest of the world seems to have gone all-in with vaccines and are now moving away from lockdowns. Why are China sticking to the lockdown route?

Hong Kong had the highest death rate per capita globally in the last weeks when their containment policy failed. Leading to a mortality of over 0.1% in a short time. Hong Kong is a very rich area. Many other areas would fare much worse. The rest of the world is not "all-in" with vaccines. Vaccines are combined with waves of infection for the unvaccinated and vaccinated which lead to the death of 0.1% to 0.6% of the p…

Only because HK's elderly are not widely vaccinated, and also because Sinovac makes up about half of their vaccinations and this vaccine is not as good at preventing mortality. A very similar situation to Mainland China, actually.

So the question still hasn't been answered. Why is Mainland China insisting on pursuing this inferior strategy? The hard-lockdown zero-Covid low-vaccination approach has been shown to be inferior to the alternative approach of ensuring 99% of the elderly are vaccinated with Pfizer or Moderna, and then allowing society to open up once this is achieved. My understanding is their vaccination rates haven't gone up much since this outbreak started, which signals that they are not intent on changing course.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#37

Post by threatripper »

geokon wrote: post #31
threatripper wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hong Kong had the highest death rate per capita globally in the last weeks when their containment policy failed. Leading to a mortality of over 0.1% in a short time. Hong Kong is a very rich area. Many other areas would fare much worse. The rest of the world is not "all-in" with vaccines. Vaccines are combined with waves of infection for the unvaccinated and vaccinated which lead to the death of 0.1% to 0.6% of the p…

What do you feel the "choice" with vaccines was? So even if they overlooked the politics/"optics", I don't think they could go to the Western pharmaceutical companies and just ask for 3 billion doses. With boosters it's looking like there isn't enough vaccine capacity for the world as it is. I don't think there was ever a real alternative other than a "zero covid strategy" What seems strange is that they haven't been…

> I don't think they could go to the Western pharmaceutical companies and just ask for 3 billion doses.

Ramping up production was a problem in the beginning but now it should not be a problem to produce enough shots to supply China. Even a single shot mRNA would improve immunity by a lot when combined with other vaccines. If China had ordered it in 2020 they would have received multiple doses per person by now.

I have no idea why mRNA failed in China.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#38

Post by thaumasiotes »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #33

Everyone here is commenting on Covid, vaccines, social policy and whatnot. I can't help but see a different, bigger and human story here. It's about how the systems people erect around themselves turn against them. Gated communities whose guards become jailers. Convenient fast food delivery systems that become tools of rationing and siege. News and communications systems turned to propaganda and social control. Meanw…

> It's about how the systems people erect around themselves turn against them. Gated communities whose guards become jailers.

Historically this is backwards. 小区 existed in the Tang dynasty much as they do today, but the gate was not operated at the direction of the residents - there was a curfew, and if you lived in a 小区 you had to obey it. If you lived in a house that opened directly onto the street, you were exempt from the curfew.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#39

Post by ImaCake »

jdrc wrote: post #26

Little weird to be talking about peopel starving and lacking meds, but then again they re able to find fresh fish. Anyway, i wonder what this pattern of isolatation can create in terms of covid variants which may develop in china or australia but which haven't been introduced to the rest of world this season.

Well Australia is open and has been for a while. As far as I know there were no novel variants that were found first here because the lockdowns suppressed case numbers and besides, there is only 25 million Australians. We have the same variants as the rest of the world, except most Australians don't know anyone who has died from COVID.
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