I am so sorry you had been treated like this!
It make sense to specifically ask about the remote policy when you are meeting with the hiring team - if you are working with outside recruiters (who got paid a fee for each placement, as oppose to inside recruiters, who are salaried) they may not know the current policy or the plan for the future.
In all fairness, at least SOME of the FAANG companies were pretty transparent about their plans for 'return to office'.
For people interested in being fully remote, check out the company I work for - LeanTaaS. We had adopted "flexibility first" model in late 2021: https://leantaas.com/blog/the-future-of-work-at-leantaas-is-...
Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions
341–350 of 455 posts
Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions
#342Earlier quoted context omitted.
People just assume anyone with a reasonable amount of common sense would be fine with it I imagine.
There's millions of people that have already been infected with COVID and receive no calculable benefit from taking a vaccine. While the vaccine has been proven to be safe and effective, there are rare side effects that some people might not want to expose themselves to for no reason. Springing that blanket requirement on people at the end of the hiring process is a shitty move.
There are significant benefits to getting the vaccine after infection https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html
Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions
#343Protip from an old guy: Always get everything in writing. No verbal promises. Make sure everything you discussed is written in the offer. If you discussed 100% remote, make sure the offer says 100% remote. If it doesn't, ask them to add it before you sign. And then if they go back on it, keep working there, look for a new job, don't go to the office even if they tell you that you have to, and bring up that you have i…
What are your recommendations for those of us who work in "at-will" states, where it's common to see "Offer letter is not a contract" in the offer emails, contracts are often eschewed except for certain key roles, and where employers have a much easier time changing parameters of your employment? (No I'm not uprooting the family and moving, either)
Since most of us work in at-will states, the advice is pretty much the same. Once you get a sign that management is no longer on your side, start your next job search and document as much as you can.
And also try to get an actual contract and not just an offer. Most decent companies will actually give you a real contract beyond the offer that details what the job duties are and the compensation and anything else you've agreed on if you ask nicely. Or you can write one yourself and ask them to sign it.
But of course a lot of that depends on what leverage you have -- how badly do they want you on board.
Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions
#344Earlier quoted context omitted.
People just assume anyone with a reasonable amount of common sense would be fine with it I imagine.
It seems bizarre to me you wouldn't put requirements up front, which seems to be what this thread is complaining about. Thank you for implying I am a moron
Well, you are a moron for refusing a free vaccine that significantly reduces chance of getting covid, AND lessens severity of ailments if you do get it.
I'd say it was a bullet dodged by the company.
Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions
#345> [...] the job opening didn't say remote, the agreement they signed didn't say remote. I don't understand. Do people sign a contract that states something differently than they were being told verbally before? Imho what isn't in writing doesn't exist. Especially when it comes to "promises" from potential employers. For example I would not trust a promised raise in 12 months when nothing was done in writing. Even wit…
> Do people sign a contract that states something differently than they were being told verbally before? Yes. All the time. And verbal agreements are valid contracts too, if you can prove they exist (but good luck in that). Anyway, this particular case looks more like the OP believed on the promises of a 3rd party (the recruiter), so it's not actually a contract.
I agree that verbal contracts are valid. But difficult to prove.
Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions
#346Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been doing remote longer than a decade and never ever had to come in to the office when designated as such. Might be reasonable for you, but that's up to the individual and at the very least needs to be disclosed in the interview stage if it's mandated. Some people work remote because they have debilitating anxiety, phobias, or mental health issues. Others are single parents that don't have the ability to offloa…
I respectfully disagree. Traveling to the office or for an offsite once a quarter is totally reasonable and when planned some three weeks ahead or so, should pose no issues whatsoever. If you are unable to fit this in your schedule, or are actually that mentally unfit you cannot oblige your fellow humans in your job... Every once in a while? Then you should not have that job. This should be considered reasonable by a…
I don't get the absolutes here, this can easily be discussed during interviews and before signing anything. Either the company and the future employee agree on what's reasonable and they sign, or they don't, and that's it.
Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions
#347Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been doing remote longer than a decade and never ever had to come in to the office when designated as such. Might be reasonable for you, but that's up to the individual and at the very least needs to be disclosed in the interview stage if it's mandated. Some people work remote because they have debilitating anxiety, phobias, or mental health issues. Others are single parents that don't have the ability to offloa…
I respectfully disagree. Traveling to the office or for an offsite once a quarter is totally reasonable and when planned some three weeks ahead or so, should pose no issues whatsoever. If you are unable to fit this in your schedule, or are actually that mentally unfit you cannot oblige your fellow humans in your job... Every once in a while? Then you should not have that job. This should be considered reasonable by a…
You can disagree all you want, but at the end of the day it's still only your opinion and is unrealistic.
For full disclosure, I have a neurological disease with physical ailments, I have digestive medical problems which would make it embarrassing for me and very uncomfortable for them, and I have a personality disorder which includes anxiety and depression as a bonus. All of which makes onsite participation literally torture for just a few hours, let alone a whole week of it. Clearly I've done my job so effectively for so long that I can work anywhere in tech and demand top salaries, so your comment about "not having that job" is not only extremely lacking in empathy, but downright wrong.
EDIT: just to clarify, this is only relevant for employers that do not disclose the requirement during the hiring phase. If they disclose it ahead of time, then I might agree with you.
Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions
#348My advice for those people is: don't go to the office. Simply work remotely as it was agreed and let the managers make a move. Considering how insanely difficult it is to hire right now, I predict most of times they will do nothing. However this might sour your relationship with your manager so you might want to consider looking internally for someone who supports remote work, or look for another company that's more…
I would also recommend starting interviewing after the first request to get back into the office.
Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
Very few workers in the U.S. have actual employment contracts. If you work in the tech sector in the U.S. you almost certainly don't. Instead, your employment is "at-will"; i.e. terminable by either party, with or without cause or notice (unless you live and work in Montana). You may have received a written offer of employment when you were hired (outlining your title, salary, hiring bonuses, etc.), but that is not a…
> If you work in the tech sector in the U.S. you almost certainly don't. I've been working in the tech sector in the US for a long time, and have had an employment contract at literally every company. I'm genuinely surprised to hear that people are working without one. That seems unwise.
You're almost certainly mistaken. An employment contract is a very specific legal document that ensures certain rights (including pay) and obligations. You (almost certainly) do not have a contract, you work "at will." Your pay could be changed to minimum wage tomorrow and you'd have no legal recourse other than to quit. Similarly, you could quit your job with no notice today and your employer could do nothing. Neither of those would be true if you had an actual contract.
Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions
#350This happened to me. The interview process went well but the company's closest office was 15 miles from me, which in Atlanta traffic is over an hour. I said I would need to be remote, they wanted me in the office full time. We were using an external recruiter, which I had never done before. Eventually the recruiter negotiated that I'd be onsite for the first month for onboarding and then remote after that. My first w…
> 15 miles from me, which in Atlanta traffic is over an hour. Sounds like bicycle speed.
Welcome to Atlanta. There isn't an easy way to get from Gwinnett to Alpharetta.
I did try it via bicycle, and it did take about the same amount of time. But the streets here are vary narrow and southern hospitality ends when you get in a car.