Exit interviews are a trap • Hacker News Board

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#411

Post by maxerickson » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 11:25 AM UTC

e-clinton wrote: post #377

anm89 wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "should" mean here? You seem to be implying that there is exactly one correct way to handle this which there is broad consensus on. If so where can i go read the rule book for the correct answers on all of managing people for all human endeavors? It reminds me of people who are convinced that there is one true way to do "agile" and that every one who disagrees is somehow subjectively wrong because some blog…

HR typically conducts the exit interviews as they are a neutral party. It’s common sense as to why your boss shouldn’t do it... you know, since the feedback people have is often about their boss. If you’re looking for the book of these basic rules, maybe take an HR class?

HR works for the company, they aren't a neutral party.

I think your meaning isn't far off, the company stands to benefit from an informative interview.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#412

Post by blablabla123 » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:09 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #265

fleddr wrote: post #233

You should definitely go to an exit interview. In the case of a sour breakup, you should 100% lie. Just say it was great but you were in need for a change. Don't dramatize the lying part because you lied to get in and the employer lied about how great their company is. Work is a lie, play the game. In the case of a drama-free breakup, when pressed for feedback and the room being receptive of it, do share your thought…

> Work is a lie, play the game. If there’s any advice I could ever give anyone who has any amount of integrity and tries to live an honest life - it’s this alone. If you don’t play the game - you’re not playing the game everyone else is and you will always lose in the end. Extremely painful to deal with for bright eyed young folks or those switching industries thinking things might be different.

I realize this will get you along but if everyone does this, nothing changes.

Also the cost of these lies are immense for companies, managers, employees and customers. Assigning employee A for one task and B for the other although it should be reverse. IMHO that's also the reason why companies ship products that are profoundly bad for their customers and only "realize" this after many years.

I know of a few people for who that is the reason why they prefer working in startups.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#413

Post by sweetheart » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 1:15 PM UTC

hnal943 wrote: post #56

sweetheart wrote: post #11

The author states there is no upside to giving honest feedback of a company in an exit interview, and the one comment I see at the moment which argues perhaps there could be an upside is making the case that the upside is when you personally benefit from stock prices increasing. Why is it difficult to see that an upside would be that the company makes a positive change and people other than yourself are benefitted? W…

This is addressed in the article. The company is unlikely to change as a result of your feedback.

Maybe, but it's still possible.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#414

Post by cgtyoder » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 1:17 PM UTC

aroundtown wrote: post #396

ianai wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the long term story for that startup and boss? Any further success or failure? A few big tricks to learn in career maturity involve how to get along in situations where there may be some toxic or even just unhelpful factors. Figure out how to be unthreatening and work with or beside cliques. Figure out how to work around technical problems without making enemies. Etc. Also be sure to draw lines that don’t limi…

A little backstory, then update. Unknown to me at the time, boss had independently made a widget that was responsible for a sizable portion of the profit for this company. He was in the process of selling the widget to the company. I was hired during a company expansion as a domain expert for a new product category in which they were developing. I was placed initially under boss to learn the company ropes. There were…

Boy, that really sucks - sorry you were abused & gaslighted like that. Glad things are better now!

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#415

Post by culopatin » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 1:45 PM UTC

optymizer wrote: post #45

andrew_ wrote: post #6

Generally spot on in my experience. I've only ever agreed to one, and it was a mess, with the interviewer getting very upset and pushing back on all of my answers. Since then I politely decline. I've had one boss tell me it wasn't optional, to which I responded that I'd be happy to leave earlier if he wanted to enforce the requirement. He swiftly backed down, as we hadn't yet finished knowledge transfer.

Hypothetically and assuming 1) at-will employment, 2) company policy requires exit interview and 3) they didn't care about the knowledge transfer, could the company then terminate you "for cause" because you refused to do the exit interview?

Why would they? You’re already leaving. What do they get from it? More worker hours doing a bunch of paperwork and risking a lawsuit? Not worth it

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#416

Post by kache_ » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 3:09 PM UTC

ComradePhil wrote: post #301

kache_ wrote: post #110

I'm a politician first and software engineer second.. I have _never_ given anyone or any sub-organization bad feedback, directly or indirectly. I've advised someone on something that could help them be better, but I've never externalized it as grumpiness I have. It's never worth it. Smile and nod, disagree and commit, focus on whats in your control, and tend to your network. If they're not paying you for an honest ex…

So much this... but I don't see the point of avoiding the exit interview. Why not mention minor non-problems which everyone sort of agrees with or they are already doing something about... while emphasizing that you are leaving because of what the new opportunity brings and not what is bad about the company. Disagreeing to an exit interview seems unnecessarily hostile... and it may lead to on-the-spot ad-hoc informal…

Yes, a very important distinction. Which is why I said _honest_ exit interview :P

Your attitude is right - avoid hostility at all costs. We're business people who code at the end of the day, what would a business man do?

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#417

Post by iratewizard » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

nopenopenopeno wrote: post #387

iratewizard wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once fired a Jr dev who lied about having done work and was generally being a salary thief. When I told him, he said he would work for free, it would never happen again, it was a misunderstanding and pleaded for his job. I told him no, so he went into the office crying to beg the founder for his job. If someone were to ask me about hiring him, I would say in no uncertain terms that it's a mistake. I wonder, though,…

Nobody is a villain here. This is the system we all live under together. Until that changes, we are stuck with it. That said, what is profit if not stolen value?

Profit is investment plus risk plus labor paying dividends to the entrepreneur. Go be a nutjob somewhere else.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#418

Post by BizarroLand » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 5:14 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #265

fleddr wrote: post #233

You should definitely go to an exit interview. In the case of a sour breakup, you should 100% lie. Just say it was great but you were in need for a change. Don't dramatize the lying part because you lied to get in and the employer lied about how great their company is. Work is a lie, play the game. In the case of a drama-free breakup, when pressed for feedback and the room being receptive of it, do share your thought…

> Work is a lie, play the game. If there’s any advice I could ever give anyone who has any amount of integrity and tries to live an honest life - it’s this alone. If you don’t play the game - you’re not playing the game everyone else is and you will always lose in the end. Extremely painful to deal with for bright eyed young folks or those switching industries thinking things might be different.

It's an interesting system we have. We claim to value truth but punish people for speaking it when their version of the truth doesn't make us feel good.

Not acceptable during an exit interview: "My boss is an egotistical jerk who intentionally makes the job hard on his employees and here's the specific things he did with time and date stamps"

Acceptable during an exit interview: "I got a job offer that fits my present and future career goals better (i.e. lets me get away from my boss who is an egotistical jerk...)"

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#419

Post by pepesoriano » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 5:15 PM UTC

tempnow987 wrote: post #104

As someone who has done exit interviews on both sides some quick notes: 1) I would dial back dramatic sweeping criticism. Now is not the time to relitigate every grievance, claim doom will befall company etc. 2) Treat it as any other feedback cycle. Here's what was working well, here some areas I might look at improving. Keep it light and friendly. 3) Do a slight "I" perspective. I'm moving for higher pay and to have…

This might sound unpopular but, when leaving a company I'm mentally telling everyone to f-off. Unless the the interview is with someone that could refer you, I wouldn't even waste any time or energy in that interview. It's not worth it. Miss it. Nobody will remember.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#420

Post by fleddr » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 7:52 PM UTC

MauranKilom wrote: post #313

fleddr wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my old man manual to life at work. Show up and do the work, consistently. Just this basic discipline puts you in the top 20% of performers, everywhere. Make your superiors look good and in any case, not bad. They don't care what you do for as long as you do this. This does not require sucking up, just deliver. Be reliable. Deliver on promises, likewise do not commit to a promise you can't fulfill and explain w…

> I refuse to do work that harms society, but other than that I'll gladly tell whoever in the office anything they want to hear if "that's how it works". So does that preclude work where telling your boss what they want to hear puts others at risk? Where along the scale of Chernobyl, Challenger disaster, medical implants, working on Facebook ads, writing enterprise grade Java, or creating eggbeater calibration routin…

I'd personally draw the line at enterprise Java, the rest is fine.