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One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

nrk.no

81–90 of 371 posts

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#81
post #24

The dream of the internet as some sort of great democratizing force is already dead and buried, but for any who still believes, this must surely be the final nail in that coffin. Controlling the narrative is only a problem for existing democracies with press freedom. All bets are off once the threat model includes control of the media. So cherish your freedom of speech, and exercise and defend it. I don’t know what t…

The threat that you're modeling against is not a threat to the internet. The internet is a group of technologies enabling near-realtime dissemination of information. It has no implicit promise of freedom of speech or press, democracy, or any other political ideal. Even the World Wide Web has no such implicit promise. The great democratizing force to which you refer is the ability to publish content, and to an extent…

> It has no implicit promise of freedom of speech or press, democracy, or any other political ideal

That's the magic part: you don't have to be explicit to promote certain thing, you just create the ground tech-knowledge to enable the easy access of such thing, and hand everything else over to natural progression.

The Internet for example, enables everyone to exchange information with everyone else. That's textbook democratic-builtin design. Some undemocratic nations are so fearful such network, they go as far as creating their own little net to protect their pathetic little propaganda, the propaganda that those nations don't even dare to show to the world. And even that, they still have to fight a propaganda war (actual names might be different) in their own little net to keep democratic force in check.

Internet is democratic, there should be no question about that.

The problem about the Internet today, is that most people thinks Amazon+Google+Facebook+Twitter+other big brands is the Internet. They forgot that they can host things themselves without those big tech companies.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#82
I already kind of knew intuitively that this would be happening in some form, but seeing it examined like this really puts it into perspective.

I've noticed that on Snapchat and Instagram, I'm not able to see any new public content coming from Ukraine. On the Snapchat map, Ukraine is completely empty. I have a few Ukrainian friends, and I still see their content, but public stuff seems to be filtered or censored somehow. I'm a US-based account, and I've been in the US and Dominican Republic lately.

I think this phenomenon is related to filter bubbles (but also more than that). I've already been noticing for years that my connections with different political views, or different interests, are being fed completely different realities. Sometimes it's benign recommendations, other times it's creepy advertiser-driven manipulation, and this example of Ukraine/Russia shows that there is clearly some blatant, wide-scale censorship going on. The narrative is being controlled by powers operating in the shadows. It really is an unseen information war.

As someone who has been traveling for 10 years, my friends are incredibly diverse. So I often hear news from outside of my country and my filter bubbles. And my go-to source for trying to peek outside of the filter bubbles is Wikipedia's current events portal.

I've got a few Russian friends. Most are outside of Russia, but one who I regularly talk to is in Russia and stays on Instagram using a VPN. I've had some conversations with her about the war, and while she's certainly not a fan of Putin, and knows there is a war going on, she seems to be completely naive about the severity of it. When we talk about it she says things about how truth is hard to know because the media lies. She is hearing stories from the West but having a hard time knowing what is really happening.

There really needs to be some new form of leaflet drops to get real information to Russians despite the Information Age Iron Curtain.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#83

I feel like the premis is flawed. Maybe I am a boomer but who would excpect TikTok to provied unbiased news content? It is a chinese social media app. Use established media for news. And yes I know that is how people get content, I use Youtube and Twitch for political news and its just as bad. But this is on another level.

I was asking [0] for strong evidence of TikTok being a tool to manipulate the west and it seems that this is all the evidence that satisfies this claim.

It is no wonder governments would love to use this glorified recommendation algorithm as it is the new digital crack / cocaine which is effective on manipulating billions of users today.

Now looking back at this once again [1], I don't even think it was a clever thing to say that "TikTok is the best thing to have happened to the Internet". At most it is the direct opposite and it is even worse than Facebook.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28463370

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28135484

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#84
post #67
post #24

The dream of the internet as some sort of great democratizing force is already dead and buried, but for any who still believes, this must surely be the final nail in that coffin. Controlling the narrative is only a problem for existing democracies with press freedom. All bets are off once the threat model includes control of the media. So cherish your freedom of speech, and exercise and defend it. I don’t know what t…

This is TikTok, it is not a platform for freedom of speech or whatever. It is a platform to see cute dance videos and more generally a happy place to waste time. For that I'd say that the Russian TikTok is more in like with what TikTok is for and that's the Ukrainian TikTok that is unusual. I guess that you can't avoid it when there is a war in your country, despite all the efforts TikTok makes to keep things carefre…

Your parent is still right, though: that's what the internet largely is. Companies that try to make a quick buck by grabbing attention. And while there are still many other sites that allow open discussion, Russia can block them quite easily for a very comfortable majority of the population.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#85
post #24

The dream of the internet as some sort of great democratizing force is already dead and buried, but for any who still believes, this must surely be the final nail in that coffin. Controlling the narrative is only a problem for existing democracies with press freedom. All bets are off once the threat model includes control of the media. So cherish your freedom of speech, and exercise and defend it. I don’t know what t…

Had to sign in to visibly laugh at this comment. Democracy is dead b/c TikTok is the most childish opinion you could post about this topic. Edit: as others pointed out TikTok =! Internet.

He didn't say democracy was dead. He said the internet is not the democratising force it was once hoped to be (e.g. during the Arab Spring).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_media_and_the_Arab_Spri...

Perhaps that was before your time?

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#86
post #67
post #24

The dream of the internet as some sort of great democratizing force is already dead and buried, but for any who still believes, this must surely be the final nail in that coffin. Controlling the narrative is only a problem for existing democracies with press freedom. All bets are off once the threat model includes control of the media. So cherish your freedom of speech, and exercise and defend it. I don’t know what t…

This is TikTok, it is not a platform for freedom of speech or whatever. It is a platform to see cute dance videos and more generally a happy place to waste time. For that I'd say that the Russian TikTok is more in like with what TikTok is for and that's the Ukrainian TikTok that is unusual. I guess that you can't avoid it when there is a war in your country, despite all the efforts TikTok makes to keep things carefre…

This is TikTok only after a despotic government created a law about fake news that can result in a 15 year jail sentence.

your characterization of TikTok is shallow, its a social media platform. Just like every other social media platform people want to share and talk about the world along with their silly dances and you miss the point of OP and the article that it isn't about what TikTok should or shouldn't be, but that the limits set on free speech result in a neutering of of the social media platform, and is one example of many apps/website/platforms/news stations that will have been effected by this.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#87
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep... Putin blocking media ... sure... dictators block stuff all the time. EU blocking RT.com (and a few others) was quite a shock for me,... really a thing that should not be happening in EU (no matter whose propaganda it is).

Agreed, I was also surprised that the EU would do the very thing that is supposed to set it apart: media censorship.

RT was targeted multiple times in the past - this is not exactly a new thing. RT itself was not really censored either (not in the way specific information is outright illegal in Russia for example) - you can still go to the source if you really want to. (See the comment below about domain blocking though) They're just forbidden from using the national broadcast, since that was always controlled by various orgs. In most EU countries you get in trouble for lying in adverts, (https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer/consumer_laws...) so I'm not surprised Russian-gov-masquerading-as-news got affected too.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, the original says "Fra russiske Belgorod til ukrainske Kharkiv er det rundt åtte mil" which is 80 km

AI-powered translation tools (Google Translate) can be terrible with this situation. Naturally, I can't get Google Translate to do this now, but I see text like "Vi kjører 100 km. Det koster 30 kr" translated to "We drive 100 miles. It costs 30 SEK" -- km/miles is obviously wrong, and I think kr→SEK (even when it's either kr, kronor, crowns or NOK in English) is because there's more Swedish than Norwegian on the inte…

Google translate isn't even consistent in how it translates "kr" - I have seen it go into SEK, NOK, ISK and DKK at various times, seemingly random even when it correctly tells me which language it is specifically translating from.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#90
post #28
post #24

The dream of the internet as some sort of great democratizing force is already dead and buried, but for any who still believes, this must surely be the final nail in that coffin. Controlling the narrative is only a problem for existing democracies with press freedom. All bets are off once the threat model includes control of the media. So cherish your freedom of speech, and exercise and defend it. I don’t know what t…

Strong encryption is the only true internet freedom.

Except where it is outlawed.
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