Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Exit interviews are a trap

jacobian.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

401–410 of 431 posts

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#401

Post by erosenbe0 »

bumby wrote: post #20

My issue with the author's claims is that everything is framed in a "what's in it for me" reference. Even when they decided to break their own rule and go to an exit interview, the decision was made because there was the "didn’t think I had any downside risk." There are times when your personal choices may need to take a backseat to more important goals. If you are really committed to a mission, even one you've decid…

Sure -- in healthcare people say things like "I think new job's approach to managing patient outcomes has the rigor that I prefer" or "I think my new gig professes to emphasize xyz more than this job, and I think that is a better fit for me."

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#402

Post by erosenbe0 »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #80
bumby wrote: post #20

My issue with the author's claims is that everything is framed in a "what's in it for me" reference. Even when they decided to break their own rule and go to an exit interview, the decision was made because there was the "didn’t think I had any downside risk." There are times when your personal choices may need to take a backseat to more important goals. If you are really committed to a mission, even one you've decid…

Whistleblowers get destroyed in the culture we have right now, they loose everything. It don't think its reasonable to ask people to destroy their own lives so that we might one day find out about the horrors that companies do only to watch as nothing is done to resolve it with the perpetrators. If the circumstances were different and the public didn't stand for such widespread mistreatment of those that stood agains…

Even internal-only whistleblowing on non-safety things like IP issues or quality can be risky.

In theory you are helping by making them aware non-publicly. But if profits are good they may want to keep these things quiet and unresolved.

With unemployment at ~4% unethical people just want to continue guzzling unethical money until snot hits the fan -- when product or service collapses under the weight of the problem then get a new job at same pay. They don't want to fix anything even if long-term its a big problem. OTOH, when employment is 9% then it isn't a sure bet that equivalent job is available, and scammers need to adapt faster.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#403

Post by erosenbe0 »

thedz wrote: post #182
sweetheart wrote: post #11

The author states there is no upside to giving honest feedback of a company in an exit interview, and the one comment I see at the moment which argues perhaps there could be an upside is making the case that the upside is when you personally benefit from stock prices increasing. Why is it difficult to see that an upside would be that the company makes a positive change and people other than yourself are benefitted? W…

i've never seen a company take action from someone leaving, and any push for change has to be sustained by people still at the company. i'd be curious if anyone has ever seen it happen

The main one I can think of is companies altering their return to work posture after having an exodus of employees who did not want to return under stated terms. This sort of thing is rare though as it needs to be simultaneous, consistent feedback that is actionable.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#404

Post by rramadass »

bradlys wrote: post #289
gotaquestion wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand what "the game" is, and I'm in my mid-50's. I don't know whether I'm so good at the game I don't know I'm playing it--because nothing bad has happened--or, I'm not playing it at all--and nothing bad has happened. And I've been in this since the late 80's, through IBM, Microsoft, and Intel, not to mention two startups and contracting. Can you elaborate what The Game actually is?

I feel like I’ve been at more companies than you and I started in 2013. The fuck. The game is about presenting an image that doesn’t actually exist. It’s about not acknowledging your manager is a toxic piece of shit and your company is completely broken and will likely be bankrupt in a few years while execs milk every ounce from it. It’s about faking positivity and that you’re so excited to join the company because i…

Damn!

You are right of course; words like "Truthfulness", "Trust", "Honesty", "Integrity" are liberally sprinkled everywhere but don't mean anything anymore at all. Everybody knows this but still we are all forced to play The Game.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#405

Post by ghusto »

barnacled wrote: post #184
ghusto wrote: post #112

Good lord, what terrible advice. If anyone is reading this and thinking of adopting his ideas, please consider (with the exception being if you're still early in your career): 1) Being true to yourself is worth more than any of his purported wins 2) Be your own merit, and don't rely on others for references or goodwill 3) If every exit interviewee states that the CEO is a dick, that can't be ignored. She won't lose h…

While I agree in spirit with your point that being true to yourself is very important, as somebody who's been consistently honest (over ~15 years or so career) I'm afraid I think you're far too optimistic on that front. By all means do what I do which is -- be honest so you can sleep at night knowing you tried to do the best for the company -- but don't always expect good outcomes. That last point is the crux of why…

Yes yes and yes! I hear you, and mostly agree. However! (because of course I have a "however"):

> ... but don't always expect good outcomes

The good outcome is the physchological soundness of not playing the game. Saying things you don't believe in order to do what's expected has a negative pyschological impact on you. If it helps the company too, that's a nice bonus.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#406

Post by ghusto »

throwaway6532 wrote: post #323
ghusto wrote: post #112

Good lord, what terrible advice. If anyone is reading this and thinking of adopting his ideas, please consider (with the exception being if you're still early in your career): 1) Being true to yourself is worth more than any of his purported wins 2) Be your own merit, and don't rely on others for references or goodwill 3) If every exit interviewee states that the CEO is a dick, that can't be ignored. She won't lose h…

You, my friend, are not cynical enough.

Haha, I actually think I've gone full circle.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#407

Post by ghusto »

ghaff wrote: post #147
ghusto wrote: post #112

Good lord, what terrible advice. If anyone is reading this and thinking of adopting his ideas, please consider (with the exception being if you're still early in your career): 1) Being true to yourself is worth more than any of his purported wins 2) Be your own merit, and don't rely on others for references or goodwill 3) If every exit interviewee states that the CEO is a dick, that can't be ignored. She won't lose h…

Simply saying it was time to move on or to try something new isn’t being dishonest. It’s just not getting into all the dirty laundry. I wouldn’t be as dramatic as the author but I basically agree I’m under no obligation to the company at that point and just want to get out the door. I’m sure there are exceptions. You don’t want to go back to an office. The company wouldn’t support some initiative you were championing…

Agreed. There's no need to get into the details, but if they're brought up, I won't skirt them. This isn't so much for the company, as it is for myself. It's not _exactly_ venting, more like feeling good about myself that I didn't do something I disagreed with.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#408

Post by ghusto »

danparsonson wrote: post #179
ghusto wrote: post #112

Good lord, what terrible advice. If anyone is reading this and thinking of adopting his ideas, please consider (with the exception being if you're still early in your career): 1) Being true to yourself is worth more than any of his purported wins 2) Be your own merit, and don't rely on others for references or goodwill 3) If every exit interviewee states that the CEO is a dick, that can't be ignored. She won't lose h…

With respect that's quite naive. > 1) Being true to yourself is worth more than any of his purported wins 'Leaving a job that doesn't suit you' is the part where you're being true to yourself; whatever you say in the exit interview usually doesn't have a material positive effect on one's own life except possibly the chance to get some closure if things have been really bad - in such situations, however, I would say t…

Haha, I love these "With all due respect, you're a moron" lines :D I'm kidding, it's fine.

> whatever you say in the exit interview usually doesn't have a material positive effect on one's own life except possibly the chance to get some closure if things have been really bad

The material positive effect is the act of staying honest itself. It is psychologically damaging to do otherwise, or at least for me it was. If holding things back doesn't bother the person, then I have no argument.

> So whose name should I write down when asked for a referee? My own?

In a way. What I was getting at was that _later on in your career_, you will not need references if you're half decent. But yes, I did say that things are different when you're starting out, and you may have to play the game a little more.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#409

Post by ghusto »

khazhoux wrote: post #173
ghusto wrote: post #112

Good lord, what terrible advice. If anyone is reading this and thinking of adopting his ideas, please consider (with the exception being if you're still early in your career): 1) Being true to yourself is worth more than any of his purported wins 2) Be your own merit, and don't rely on others for references or goodwill 3) If every exit interviewee states that the CEO is a dick, that can't be ignored. She won't lose h…

I feel like author actually considered all your points, but regardless arrives at the same conclusion: The expected value of an exit interview -for you, the individual- is near-zero or possibly negative. At the point of your exit interview, you're done with the company. You're no longer part of the team, you're no longer in the family. Your advice and feedback is that of someone who decided to jump ship. I suppose if…

I'm being more selfish than that. Of course I wish the company would improve even as I'm leaving, but my _main_ concern is my own psychological wellbeing, and I've found that it hurts me to hold things back for the sake of playing a game.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#410

Post by ghusto »

shakezula wrote: post #156
ghusto wrote: post #112

Good lord, what terrible advice. If anyone is reading this and thinking of adopting his ideas, please consider (with the exception being if you're still early in your career): 1) Being true to yourself is worth more than any of his purported wins 2) Be your own merit, and don't rely on others for references or goodwill 3) If every exit interviewee states that the CEO is a dick, that can't be ignored. She won't lose h…

You can say all you want about “be yourself” and “honesty is the best policy” but that doesn’t mean the company across the table from you is going to be a good actor. You’re placing a lot of faith on the company here, and in my experience people in companies will absolutely do things like what the author listed and thinking that they won’t is just naive. I’ve personally experienced having a former boss who’s friends…

I had a similar situation, but can't go into details. My new boss had developed a blind spot for gossip about me. Lucky me, I guess, but I also think it may have had to do with cultural differences between Europe and the U.S.A.
Post reply on HN