Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Now for some extra fun, overlay this with graphs over CO2 emissions. Some other fun: Overlay this with a graph of nuclear waste production.
The point of a graph is to illustrate a number that fluctuate and changes over time. Nuclear waste production does not. We could graph how much money Germany is funding the Russian military by buying gas, coal and oil. We could also graph how much radioactive particels get released into the environment through fossil fuel combustion. However both would just correlate directly with how much fossil fuel they consume wh…
Exchange electricity prices in France go through the roof
21–30 of 107 posts
Re: Exchange electricity prices in France go through the roof
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Obviously not? Just because France doesn't buy natural gas themselves, they import so much electricity based on natural gas from its neighbors. So they are defacto dependent on natural gas as they can't supply electricity enough with nuclear and are thus in such much much worse energy political situation as prices will continue to surge.
Do you have a source for this information? This is what I found "In 2020, France exported a total of nearly 78 terawatt hours of electricity. Meanwhile, electricity imports to France amounted to nearly 35 terawatt hours in total that year." Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1279015/france-electrici...
Re: Exchange electricity prices in France go through the roof
#23nuclear vs wind energy maybe. just look at it. which do you think is 30x cheaper? the more interesting question is why the oil and water-energy exporter Norway got so much more expensive domestic energy prizes since it joined the European energy market.
Re: Exchange electricity prices in France go through the roof
#24France (One year graph): https://www.epexspot.com/en/market-data?market_area=FR&tradi... Germany (One year graph): https://www.epexspot.com/en/market-data?market_area=DE-LU&tr... Now for some extra fun, overlay this with graphs over CO2 emissions.
> Now for some extra fun, overlay this with graphs over CO2 emissions. Some other fun: Overlay this with a graph of nuclear waste production.
Re: Exchange electricity prices in France go through the roof
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Now for some extra fun, overlay this with graphs over CO2 emissions. Some other fun: Overlay this with a graph of nuclear waste production.
Which kind of nuclear waste are we talking about? VLLW? LLW? ILW? HLW?
A lot of people don’t really know much about waste from reactors other than that it is “bad”.
Re: Exchange electricity prices in France go through the roof
#26Quoted post unavailable.
Re: Exchange electricity prices in France go through the roof
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
The point of a graph is to illustrate a number that fluctuate and changes over time. Nuclear waste production does not. We could graph how much money Germany is funding the Russian military by buying gas, coal and oil. We could also graph how much radioactive particels get released into the environment through fossil fuel combustion. However both would just correlate directly with how much fossil fuel they consume wh…
> The point of a graph is to illustrate a number that fluctuate and changes over time. Nuclear waste production does not. I would expect that more nuclear waste is produced when more nuclear energy is produced and less waste when less energy is produced. Isn't that a fluctuation?
The European energy market price is determined by changes in supply (wind and solar being the main contributors for fluctuations, followed by water supplies), demand for energy, and prices for fossil fuel. If gas prices goes up, the price for energy on the market goes up. If cheap wind is flooding the market, prices goes down. As can be read by the graphs, since the European energy market is connected those changes occur simultanious in both Germany and France. However, there is an additional transport cost and thus prices can be a bit different. The negative energy prices also seems to effect those more closely to the plants with excess energy, rather than transporting the excess energy across the European continent.
The actually cost at any specific location is then determined by the energy market price (see above) and transport distance between the energy production point and energy consumption point.
A graph over nuclear waste would have no correlation with the market price. At most one would see a slightly more volatile market price when nuclear energy production is low, and a slightly more stable market price when the production is high, but one would need to have a pretty fancy graphical design in order to confer that knowledge in a graph.
Re: Exchange electricity prices in France go through the roof
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
The point of a graph is to illustrate a number that fluctuate and changes over time. Nuclear waste production does not. We could graph how much money Germany is funding the Russian military by buying gas, coal and oil. We could also graph how much radioactive particels get released into the environment through fossil fuel combustion. However both would just correlate directly with how much fossil fuel they consume wh…
btw. gas imports for france and germany from russia are probably the same.
There is however the ability to increase/decrease imports when needed by adding more transport trucks or reduce the flow in the pipe lines.
A graph over CO2 emissions is thus more useful in this context since they follow the actually consumption of gas/oil/coal, and has a direct connection with the market price for which the above graphs represent.
Re: Exchange electricity prices in France go through the roof
#29nuclear vs wind energy maybe. just look at it. which do you think is 30x cheaper? the more interesting question is why the oil and water-energy exporter Norway got so much more expensive domestic energy prizes since it joined the European energy market.
How much does renewable energy cost on a windless November night, when I need to heat my home and cook my dinner ?
It all gets built way quicker too. No 15 year lead times setting up solar panel farms can be done in 6 months. Pumped storage projects can be done in a couple of years. Each small scale quick and cheap project takes a chunk out of our reliance on natgas.
People way underestimate just how fantastically expensive nuclear power is and how unviable it is without lavish subsidies that other renewables dont need.
It'll keep getting built in countries with nuclear arsenals though coz it can share some of those costs. Thats ultimately why we get barraged with so much pro nuclear power propaganda. It aint about reliability, it's about the military industrial complex foisting costs off on to rate and taxpayers.
Obviously when Iran does this we are made aware of how awful and wrong it is but it's greenwashed under the carpet 100% of the rest of the time.
Re: Exchange electricity prices in France go through the roof
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know it is tiring to see this comment. But, the cost of nuclear power quoted everywhere does NOT include the cost of safely handling the waste from it for hundreds of years right? Until it is included it is like Saudi Arabia claiming that oil is the best thing in the world because it costs €1/barrel because they only need to factor the cost of digging for it.
Nuclear power strike prices usually do include much of the long term costs, and money has to be committed into a trust (or some similar scheme) as part of getting approval in the first place. And it would be more like Saudi Arabia claiming that oil only costs $100 per barrel because they don't need to pay for pollution remediation, healthcare costs, spill cleanup and their share of all climate change effects from the…
Makes all the propaganda about how safe it truly is ring a bit hollow when they dont pay for their own damn insurance.