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Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
71–80 of 476 posts
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#72It sounds like its an internal chat app, presumably meant for business. If people were openly talking about "slave labor" and "vaccine" on any public company slack channels, I would think they'd shut it down at most organizations. I don't think you're allowed to use company time to organize. I don't think its unreasonable to make people work when they're on the clock and remove distractions. Many are used to comforta…
> presumably meant for business. If people were openly talking about "slave labor" and "vaccine"
Should we also ban employees talking about 'unrelated to work' words like a 'tornado' and 'fire' so they they keep on working right untill they die, as has happened recently?
Also people here that hink you can't use employer's facilities and apps to organise -> organising is a legal right, where do you expect to be able to meet all your co-workers, randomly at the shopping mall? You are as deluded as people who think they have right to protest but government shouldn't own any land, and you have no right to protest on private land.
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#73> The major goal of the program, Amazon’s head of worldwide consumer business, Dave Clark, said, was to reduce employee attrition by fostering happiness among workers — and also productivity. Shout-Outs would be part of a gamified rewards system in which employees are awarded virtual stars and badges for activities that “add direct business value,” documents state. At the meeting, Clark remarked that “some people are…
Why don’t their employees quit then and work somewhere better if they have the opportunity? If they don’t have a better opportunity than seems like Amazon is providing a valuable opportunity. Not to mention we seem to be in a worker-favorable economy.
Say you’re a father. You need to support your family, and there’s an Amazon Fulfillment Center in town. It pays a whole dollar an hour better than the local fruit packing warehouse, which is a huge difference. Amazon is providing me a valuable opportunity!
Except now, I’m working myself to the bone trying to fulfill my package counts, peeing in bottles, shitting in bags, constantly stressed about if I can not only meet my quotas, but beat everyone else on the floor with me so that I can get more hours next time. I get back from work miserable, stressed, and probably angry from the constant competition needed to just survive. But this is a valuable opportunity, surely, except for the fact that I’m constantly stressed about work, and now I can’t even complain about how I’m stressed about work because Amazon won’t allow me to have my phone on the floor or say the word “restroom” in their internal chat app.
Oh but right, as you say, it’s a worker-favorable economy! Let me go to packing warehouse and try and get even fifty cents closer to Amazon with the leverage I obviously have. I’m sure the guy there is gonna say no problem, here’s a raise.
This is the lesson that we already learned in the 1800s with monopolies; they distort reality. It’s useless to argue “if you don’t want to work for them, don’t” because they often pay just better than your local alternatives, but by virtue of their economy bending power, they will exert an insane amount of control and influence until they are either regulated or there is no competition left and I don’t even have the fruit packing warehouse anymore, but the Amazon Oranges Fulfillment Center.
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#74Pretty shameful for the programmers who implemented this.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was sold to programmers as a "dynamic block list" so they could respond to the changing landscape of slurs, and then execs decided to use that functionality to add these other words.
"It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to which Baghdad could be given as a parameter."
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would you use a work-provided chat app to discuss things the company may not like? For example, do you not expect your employer to know if you're browsing for another job over company provided Internet on company provided laptops? If they were spying on the guest Wifi, that's another thing.
Sometimes I wonder where these arguments will lead us if the the technology develops further... Why would you use work-provided air to transmit voice to discuss things the company may not like at the office? Don't you know they have smart microphones in the walls and use Active Noise Control to 'cancell' any words you say that they don't like? For example, do you not expect your employer to know if you are thinking a…
Go further.
Employees with Neuralink devices can get $10/month in amazon store credit if they turn on thought monitoring. Thought monitoring will collect keywords like "union", "pay raise", and "slavery labor" to enable precise employee interventions. Breaching the employee guidelines is a serious offense and repeated violations can result in termination. Employees can always find another job after all. :)
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't think you're allowed to use company time to organize True, but they can't be discriminatory in how they restrict communications. If they prohibit all non-work discussions on this app that appears to be fine - but not if they only restrict topics that are likely related to organizing. From https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/em... "Also, restrictions on your efforts to communicate with…
I’m sure the employee handbook is setup correctly. I’m also entirely sure the rule is spottily enforced.
It can be true for the purposes of harassment that enforcement can be inconsistent, and that can work to a certain degree. When a matter such as this comes before a court the spotty enforcement will be a problem for the employer.
Employers exploit these sorts of things all the time to their benefit, and I am sure Amazon has/will - but when a critical mass is reached they will find that the organizer they fired for talking unions on company time will win. This is part of the reason that it takes an extraordinary effort to unionize.
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#77> The major goal of the program, Amazon’s head of worldwide consumer business, Dave Clark, said, was to reduce employee attrition by fostering happiness among workers — and also productivity. Shout-Outs would be part of a gamified rewards system in which employees are awarded virtual stars and badges for activities that “add direct business value,” documents state. At the meeting, Clark remarked that “some people are…
Why don’t their employees quit then and work somewhere better if they have the opportunity? If they don’t have a better opportunity than seems like Amazon is providing a valuable opportunity. Not to mention we seem to be in a worker-favorable economy.
Negotiations exist between two parties in a contractual relationship. Employment isn't a take it or leave it deal, it's give and take between two parties where terms of employment are decided by negotiations between both of them.
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If they don’t have a better opportunity than seems like Amazon is providing a valuable opportunity. So when are we letting children back in the coalmines?
This is a terrible analogy and adds nothing to the conversation. We aren't going to make children work in mines, because (as I'm sure you know), adult workers and children are not the same thing. There is a huge chasm between "adult workers making more than a lot of their other opportunities is slightly more cannot unionize as easily using Amazon services" and "put children back in coal mines".
>We aren't going to make children work in mines, because (as I'm sure you know), adult workers and children are not the same thing.
once upon a time, this was not obvious. this modern moral axiom is a result of of hard-won labor organizing over the 19th century. all kinds of exploitative practices were justified with the exact same "the workers are being given an opportunity so they shouldn't complain" argument. it's not an analogy.
taking advantage of people because they don't have any other options is the definition of exploitation.
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#79They should use code words they can't ban. union = continuous improvement meeting pay raise = productivity increase slave labor = being a proud employee
You can almost hear the euphemism treadmill[1] accelerate beyond its limit.
1. https://www.nytimes.com/1994/04/05/opinion/the-game-of-the-n...
Re: Amazon worker chat app to ban words such as “union”, “pay raise”, “slave labor”
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If they don’t have a better opportunity than seems like Amazon is providing a valuable opportunity. So when are we letting children back in the coalmines?
This is a terrible analogy and adds nothing to the conversation. We aren't going to make children work in mines, because (as I'm sure you know), adult workers and children are not the same thing. There is a huge chasm between "adult workers making more than a lot of their other opportunities is slightly more cannot unionize as easily using Amazon services" and "put children back in coal mines".
I disagree. I think it’s a good reminder that if we do not regulate labor, businesses like Amazon will grow more and more nefarious. They already confiscate phones, have a built-in PIP revolving door, use their own employees to vouch for them on Twitter, recruit aggressively to have a never-ending stream of labor, and explicitly violate existing labor laws by setting up a system so competitive their own employees cannot take bathroom breaks and meet quotas, in essence giving them no breaks. You seem to be under the impression that companies have an inherent disdain for child labor, which historically is not true. I think actually society has proven that, as long as we don’t see it, we’re fine with the cost.
Also, do you know what stopped children in coal mines? Labor unions.