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Exit interviews are a trap

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Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#271

Post by barbazoo »

legitster wrote: post #26

I have no idea what the author is on about. The exit interview is often the best 30 minutes of a bad job! You can tell them what they are doing well, what they aren't doing well, praise good employees and criticize bad managers. If you are both professionals, it's a cathartic experience that supports your remaining coworkers. If they are not professional, they weren't going to give you a good reference anyway. But if…

They sound like awful, possible hostile, environments OP has worked in. I'm with you here, there is absolutely room to provide constructive criticism and to provide an opposing data point, I have seen instances of an organization changing over time at least in part due to what people have said in their exit interviews. We're all human beings and we want each other to be happy and successful. If that's not the environment I'm in, then I made a mistake. If I am, it's not at all like OP described.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#272

Post by ionwake »

ghaff wrote: post #195
legitster wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if leadership is universally terrible, say your piece and walk away. But there are plenty of situations were the company is okay enough, but leadership should know that there's a specific department or manager who is contributing to turnover. If you refuse to speak up because you think no one will listen, you might equally be part of the problem.

Getting into individual criticisms is probably about the last thing I would do in an exit interview. It’s not my problem any longer because it’s an exit interview. Generally speaking momentary catharsis associated with blowing up bridges isn’t worth it.

I’m weirded out by how this comment is exactly how to handle it imo but not many others seem to agree. I’m perplexed. I get more confused about other peoples opinions the older I get but maybe that’s the thing I’m older and wiser.

Or maybe I’m just an idiot.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#273

Post by UncleOxidant »

> Let’s consider the upside: maybe the company changes! Probably not, though: whatever the criticism is, it’s highly unlikely it’s something new.

Yes, highly unlikely for anything to change at the company you're leaving. Beyond what he outlines here, one big consideration is that many companies have cult-like characteristics. If you decide to leave the cult...err, I mean company you're now considered an unreliable source of information anyway ("who would choose to leave this company where we are going to change the world!", "Obviously this is a disgruntled employee with issues." etc.). Maybe you were once a true believer in the cult's... err, I mean, company's mission when you first joined, but became disillusioned over time. Many others who remain there will still be true believers.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#274

Post by mbesto »

legitster wrote: post #208
JJMcJ wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a cathartic experience If you need catharsis after leaving a job, call up your old college roommate or your parents to bellyache. Nothing you say is confidential. There's a good chance the notes will go directly to your old manager and/or manager's manager, with your name on it. Be bland and non-committal, and if you are really pressed, give the mildest criticism like "I wish the ticketing system was easier to use"…

> There's a good chance the notes will go directly to your old manager and/or manager's manager, with your name on it. Why should I care? I say things during an exit interview I want them to know.

> Why should I care? I say things during an exit interview I want them to know.

With a little benefit to you (other than catharsis) and unlimited downside if you do. The entity benefitting from that conversation is none other than the company itself. They are usually not going to change as a result. And if they do, you no longer work there. So why would it matter?

You. Owe. Them. Nothing.

Corporate entities are not your friends and they are not your family. If they say they are...RUN.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#275

Post by UncleOxidant »

legitster wrote: post #26

I have no idea what the author is on about. The exit interview is often the best 30 minutes of a bad job! You can tell them what they are doing well, what they aren't doing well, praise good employees and criticize bad managers. If you are both professionals, it's a cathartic experience that supports your remaining coworkers. If they are not professional, they weren't going to give you a good reference anyway. But if…

This ignores the cult-like attributes of many companies. You've decided to leave, therefore your critique may no longer be considered reliable - "obviously a disgruntled employee who did not appreciate our efforts to improve the world" - that's going to be the thinking in some quarters.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#276

Post by llamataboot »

JJMcJ wrote: post #193
legitster wrote: post #26

I have no idea what the author is on about. The exit interview is often the best 30 minutes of a bad job! You can tell them what they are doing well, what they aren't doing well, praise good employees and criticize bad managers. If you are both professionals, it's a cathartic experience that supports your remaining coworkers. If they are not professional, they weren't going to give you a good reference anyway. But if…

> a cathartic experience If you need catharsis after leaving a job, call up your old college roommate or your parents to bellyache. Nothing you say is confidential. There's a good chance the notes will go directly to your old manager and/or manager's manager, with your name on it. Be bland and non-committal, and if you are really pressed, give the mildest criticism like "I wish the ticketing system was easier to use"…

Tech is big enough and experienced people have enough hiring power that I've never heard of anyone skilled that couldn't get another job even if they were as asshole, much less gave honest feedback.

I consider it part of my integrity that I try to bring to every job to give honest and direct criticism about things I found lacking, especially if I'm leaving because of those lacks.

Perhaps they fix them, perhaps they don't, perhaps it helps other people on the team, but I can't imagine an actual downside outside of highly specialized niches where one could actually be cut out of further opportunities even with competitors

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#277

Post by gotaquestion »

bradlys wrote: post #265
fleddr wrote: post #233

You should definitely go to an exit interview. In the case of a sour breakup, you should 100% lie. Just say it was great but you were in need for a change. Don't dramatize the lying part because you lied to get in and the employer lied about how great their company is. Work is a lie, play the game. In the case of a drama-free breakup, when pressed for feedback and the room being receptive of it, do share your thought…

> Work is a lie, play the game. If there’s any advice I could ever give anyone who has any amount of integrity and tries to live an honest life - it’s this alone. If you don’t play the game - you’re not playing the game everyone else is and you will always lose in the end. Extremely painful to deal with for bright eyed young folks or those switching industries thinking things might be different.

I'm not sure I understand what "the game" is, and I'm in my mid-50's. I don't know whether I'm so good at the game I don't know I'm playing it--because nothing bad has happened--or, I'm not playing it at all--and nothing bad has happened. And I've been in this since the late 80's, through IBM, Microsoft, and Intel, not to mention two startups and contracting.

Can you elaborate what The Game actually is?

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#278

Post by nobodyandproud »

dbg31415 wrote: post #111

Great advice here. HR is NEVER your friend. They are not on your side. DO NOT TRUST HR. Anonymous feedback is never anonymous. DO NOT TRUST HR. Here's the deal... Exit interviews, as a manager, were annoying because they could ding me on my annual reviews. And that's fine, except... people would complain about things I had no control over. "Oh, my manager made me do something stupid that I didn't like!" Yup, I get it…

You're right that HR is never your friend and today's world is so small, but my take: Be cautious with your words while offering genuine, constructive, and non-personal feedback.

It's possible that HR will never do anything--covering for a toxic middle manager--yet expecting to see action from a single exit interview is unrealistic.

SO! While you're not obligated to give any honest feedback, but if you like your coworkers then it's worth a shot.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#279

Post by shadowgovt »

FWIW, the hypothetical the author poses of the retaliatory company (because it's a hypothetical) isn't mediated by whether or not you do the exit interview.

Your previous company can decide to hand out false bad referral signal because they didn't like your face, regardless of whether you agree to do the exit interview. Hell, if it's the kind of folks who might give out false bad referrals, they could do it because you refused the exit interview (in their minds, you snubbed them).

Without knowing more about an employer, I don't think you can apply this "Exit interviews are a trap" concept universally.

Re: Exit interviews are a trap

#280

Post by Ancalagon »

KoftaBob wrote: post #247
Ancalagon wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. You can ask in private but DOXXing somebody via HN/Reddit hivemind is a no-go without proper evidence. 1 anecdote does not suffice in this case (sorry OP, I do believe you though)

Not to nitpick, but I think the term you're looking for is "Doxxing".

Thanks updated
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