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Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#501

Post by s1artibartfast »

Barrera wrote: post #250

Freakonomics ran a recent episode on unions [1]. A pair of interesting stats were presented near the start: the approval rating for unions stands at 70% in the US (even higher among the young) at the same time that union membership stands at 10%. Both numbers are at multi-decade extremes. I don't think it's any coincidence that this success at Amazon comes right now. After the GFC all regulatory efforts turned to kee…

There's a big difference and do you approve of the general concept of unit Union and do you personally want to be part of one. Freakonomics is a great introduction but very much pop economics with all of the problems of Journalism. They love to cherry-pick extremes and ignore detail and nuance

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#502

Post by triactual »

tsimionescu wrote: post #332
robomartin wrote: post #282

I was in a union (not by choice) the first ten years or so of my professional life. To put it in simple terms: I despise them. Yes, of course, they had reason to exist in the dark ages. Today, I think they are in a range between counterproductive and dangerous. Before anyone make a move for the jugular: I make a distinction between union members and union management (the entity). Union members are hard working folks,…

Your view is massively in the wrong. Companies are wasting waaaay more money on stock buybacks, huge compensation packages for executives, nepotism and corruption in business deals and other similar things than they are on employee wages.

This is pure fantasy. Minimum wage in the US is 2-10x what it is in low cost regions. Not even touching regulations. US experts travel to those regions to hand-hold every step necessary in order to make any product not forced to be built in the US by taxes or regulation. I did this for years and I hate it. I have worked for years in both American and foreign factories and I can assure you that they can automate just as well so there is no hope without government intervention in the form of tariffs. US labor currently competes on a global market.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#503

Post by bobsmooth »

nessguy wrote: post #326
Barrera wrote: post #250

Freakonomics ran a recent episode on unions [1]. A pair of interesting stats were presented near the start: the approval rating for unions stands at 70% in the US (even higher among the young) at the same time that union membership stands at 10%. Both numbers are at multi-decade extremes. I don't think it's any coincidence that this success at Amazon comes right now. After the GFC all regulatory efforts turned to kee…

I like the idea of unions more than the reality. My first job was earning minimum wage working full-time at Safeway. After working there for about 9 months I quit because I didn't want to pay union dues to join the union. I was already only making minimum wage, it wasn't like the union was improving my salary. The required hour long lunch breaks might have been thanks to the union, but I hated having to take hour lon…

>It left a bad taste in my mouth.

Buy better food? I don't understand how a person can eat their food and digest it in 30 minutes.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#504

Post by closeparen »

marricks wrote: post #485
pmorici wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High housing prices aren't the result of stagnant wages and rising wages will only cause housing to become more expensive (more money chasing the same housing stock) unless something is done to boost supply. Unions don't fix this, they might make it worse on the margins. Unionization is a mixed bag. The UAW has been in the news recently for a seemingly never ending parade of union leaders being sent to jail for corru…

How many empty houses are there in the US, millions? How many luxury condos are being built and sit unoccupied? It seems like people always come out of the woodwork to explain how rising wages aren’t helpful and are solution must always seem to involve paying for more things (this cases houses).

Population isn’t static. We need housing supply to be responsive to changes in demographics and preferences.

If the towns no one wanted to live in anymore were 100% occupied, that would be very bad! It would mean more people were stuck.

If the cities people want to live in were 100% occupied, that would also be very bad! It would mean there’s no such thing as a move-in ready home to terminate your search. You’d only be able to move by swapping with someone, or else everyone in the connected component of moves would need to move on the same day (some cities actually used to do that).

In general, vacancy is good for buyers and tenants; it gives them both liquidity and leverage over sellers and landlords.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#505

Post by vkou »

relaxing wrote: post #302
jfjfkfmf wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the thousands of public school students I know, all know at least one unqualified teacher.

Everyone here knows multiple unqualified coworkers.

And some of us are those unqualified coworkers!

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#506

Post by refurb »

ATsch wrote: post #378
Taikonerd wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Normally this kind of movement would be a strength of the left. But lately the right has become quite populist, so maybe this plays in their direction. I saw an op-ed from a conservative magazine on this exact theme: [1]. The author basically says, "if we're claiming to be the party of the working class, shouldn't we be in favor of this?" 1: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/republicans...

I think that question pretty much answers itself, especially if one looks at voting demographics by income. The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. (perhaps, on a more speculative note, also a reflection of the seemingly general conservative pattern of wanting to see oneself as "normal", to the point of sometimes fabricating "silent majoritie…

The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality.

I find this a funny criticism considered when Trump won a big swath of non-college graduates (presumably blue collar workers) he was ridiculed for having the “dumb” vote.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#507

Post by irrational »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #398
rootusrootus wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality. I tend to agree, but then again I really don't grok the Trump thing, and I can't claim that I saw it coming or sticking around as long as it has. At this point I would not be terribly shocked to see a bit of role reversal between the two major parties.

I've been a conservative since I had a minimum wage job, for one reason: I want the government out of my life as much as possible. I firmly believe nobody will care about my family as much as I do and I don't want the government's golden handcuffs. Leave me alone, let me work, and I'll happily live with whatever happens. I think this is the fundamental disconnect in left-right (economic) politics. The left, as I see…

That’s an awfully selfish outlook, isn’t it? Shouldn’t we be willing as a society to care for the poor and needy among us? So far every other group and organization has completely failed at that, except for government. I am happy to pay my taxes so that my government can take care of those who not as well off as I am.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#508

Post by jansen555 »

Retric wrote: post #427
zeruch wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The idea of the republican working class party has always been more of a clever rhetorical strategy than a reality." Always? No. But certainly since the 1970s.

Parties benefit from ideological inertia. I prefer small government that minimizes spending… So based on recent voting patterns, I vote Democrat.

No post body was provided.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#509

Post by refurb »

hnburnsy wrote: post #474
Taikonerd wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Normally this kind of movement would be a strength of the left. But lately the right has become quite populist, so maybe this plays in their direction. I saw an op-ed from a conservative magazine on this exact theme: [1]. The author basically says, "if we're claiming to be the party of the working class, shouldn't we be in favor of this?" 1: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/republicans...

Marco Rubio came out in favor of the works at Amazon., last year he wrote: >Here’s my standard: When the conflict is between working Americans and a company whose leadership has decided to wage culture war against working-class values, the choice is easy — I support the workers. And that’s why I stand with those at Amazon’s Bessemer warehouse today. Was there a large ground swell of popular conservative outlets again…

Don’t confuse political opportunism with core ideological beliefs.

Re: Amazon workers on Staten Island vote to unionize

#510

Post by giraffe_lady »

seibelj wrote: post #443
giraffe_lady wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The baseline condition of labor, that those doing it must continue to do it or they will die , is inherently much more authoritarian than this. I'm not at all arguing for an "ends justify the means" position here, just pointing out that the condition we're talking about is already a morally compromised one, and so people won't always have the freedom to operate purely in line with their moral preferences. Or yours. B…

Nope I don’t want to join a union and any attempt to make me will be fought aggressively. Just my preference not to be forced to pay money to people I did not ask to represent me.

Then welcome to the fight we're trying to get rid of the cops next.
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