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Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

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Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#31

Post by throwntoday »

libertine wrote: post #2

I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on Elden Ring - I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. Just like how you're introduced to the world is literally how BoTW introduces you to it's own world (could it be a homage?), or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button wit…

Oof, BotW was absolute trash. It was the epitome of bad open-world design. You have an absolutely massive map with nothing to do. The story is fragmented into just four dungeon/town areas and some memories scattered around the map. There are like two villages otherwise with still basically nothing to do in them. Exploration is not rewarded, weapons break for no reason (doesn't add difficulty or fun, it's just frustrating), shrines are repetitive, the list goes on.

Nintendo rested on their laurels and released a literal 3/10 game but people still ate it up for some reason. I don't think I have ever been so disappointed with a game in my life, and I've been playing Zelda since I was four years old. I wasn't asking for much, perhaps if the map was 1/10th the size they could have spent more effort filling it with content.

Elden Ring is in total juxtaposition. Exploration is rewarded with secret weapons, armor and skills that don't break and are actually useful. Your build is totally up to you and the wide variety means options for how you play the game, fight the bosses, and navigate enemy corridors is huge. FromSoft added respec this go around which lets you change it up if you're getting decimated over a bad build or just want to try something else. The bosses are unforgiving but manageable if you're resiliant. The map is still large enough to get lost in, but small enough that it doesn't feel empty. You're forced to ditch your horse in many areas out of respect for navigating on foot. And of course the story/lore which FromSoft is known for being bad at delivering (usually told through items and notes collected through the game) is leagues better than previous titles, having GRRM consult and help build out the lore was a brilliant idea as well. This game is 10/10, they did not compromise on their core values of delivering a legit challenge to players and improved upon every conceivable part of the game.

If it's not clear, I really love this game. I'm 75hrs into my first playthrough and only 50% of the trophies achieved. This has been great value in my opinion.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#32

Post by throwntoday »

sushid wrote: post #20
holyyikes wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Elden Ring is about as far from BOTW as you can possibly be. It's not inspired by it at all.

It's literally their highly refined tried and true formula with BOTW. Hard to believe that you don't see the parallel in open world design if you've played both games.

I would not compare these two games. Death Stranding was a refined BotW. Elden Ring is a totally different game and I think comparing it to BotW is an insult to FromSoft as they actually put effort into making the open world feel full of content. BotW is 15min of riding your horse through nothing and dodging the same 2-3 enemy mobs to get to a shrine where maybe you get a fun puzzle but most likely you fight a robot for the 100th time.

Enemy, dungeon, weapon, skill, play style, and boss variety is massive in Elden Ring. BotW does not hold a candle to it.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#33

Post by Arrath »

periphrasis wrote: post #28
yen223 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am partial to the argument that Fallout: New Vegas is close to the perfect open-world game out there. It gets the open-world aspects right. All of the world is accessible from the start, the only limitations being your ability to tackle stronger enemies (like deathclaws). Exploration is rewarding, not forced. The world is designed such that exploration is driven less by quest markers, but by the player noticing int…

New Vegas wasn’t a Bethesda game?

Which is part of why its so great.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#34

Post by linkdd »

mcbutterbunz wrote: post #29
linkdd wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zelda BOTW is just the first NES Zelda for the modern era. Nintendo's open-world is the only open-world I liked. I can't get immersed in GTA's open world because I'm just a random going on a killing spree for 15 minutes then shut the game down. I hated Skyrim, the world is big but empty. There is nothing particular about the landscape that makes me want to "go there". Most of the time, I discovered areas because I wa…

One part of BOTW that really stuck out to me is how close, yet far away things felt. You know how when you look at something through a telephoto lens, things get compressed? They did that really well in BOTW. Things could look close and you could see they were there, but when you start moving towards something, there was actually a lot of ground to cover. It helped make the world seem within reach, yet distant at the…

Yes the "oh i'm on this quest, but what's a little detour?" is quite fun in this game.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#35

Post by linkdd »

oneoff786 wrote: post #24
linkdd wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zelda BOTW is just the first NES Zelda for the modern era. Nintendo's open-world is the only open-world I liked. I can't get immersed in GTA's open world because I'm just a random going on a killing spree for 15 minutes then shut the game down. I hated Skyrim, the world is big but empty. There is nothing particular about the landscape that makes me want to "go there". Most of the time, I discovered areas because I wa…

Botw is so much more than just NES Zelda. That the two are non linear is just one similarity.

Both games are centered on exploration more than the main quest. You're thrown into a world without instructions, you don't know who you are or what you're doing here. There is just a world to explore and have a fun adventure in.

While quite different of course, they have basically the same goal: you first have to get lost in order to find your way.

The fun begins when you explore and stumble across things by mistake.

Also many landmarks in BOTW are straight up taken from the NES game, like the twin mountains in the gerudo desert.

After Ocarina of Time, the Zelda games went to a linear story with a dungeon formula almost copy pasted for 20 years. BOTW breaks this pattern to get back to its roots: exploration.

Just watch the interviews of Aonuma explaining this.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#36

Post by emmo »

imiric wrote: post #30
uejfiweun wrote: post #10

Just a phenomenal game. IMO, all the From Games are great, but none of them really matched up to the original Dark Souls... until now. I've literally played this every day since it came out, I have over 150 hours, and I still haven't beat it. And still I'm discovering cool new areas, items, and lore. The amount of times I've gotten to a new area and just gone "what in the actual fuck" is too many to count, it's just…

I'm not a FromSoft aficionado and have only played Bloodborne for about 10 hours, which I enjoyed but probably would never finish. I've followed all the Souls games and now ER, have watched many hours of gameplay, and I honestly don't get the appeal and cult-like following around them. I can appreciate the detailed environments and characters, the deep lore, RPG aspects, and probably the best combat mechanics and hit…

It's just not for you, and that's ok.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#37

Post by lagmos »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #17
whoknew1122 wrote: post #11

I think author is forgetting a very important part: From it's beginning, Elden Ring was positioned as a soulslike game. People walk into a soulslike game knowing they're going to get wrecked often and things are going to be difficult. This gives developers freedom like abbreviated tutorials, making the player character a non-hero, etc. Linear storylines and sidequests, are often used as interactive tutorials. They gi…

>In soulslike games, it's expected that your hand isn't going to be held and you might blindly walk into areas for which you're severely under equipped. Game even goes out of it's way to place Sellia Crystal Tunnel teleporter extremely close to start point if you immediately start going east.

Yeah. Getting teleported was almost the first thing that happened to me in the game. Way befor getting a horse

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#38

Post by MattRix »

imiric wrote: post #30
uejfiweun wrote: post #10

Just a phenomenal game. IMO, all the From Games are great, but none of them really matched up to the original Dark Souls... until now. I've literally played this every day since it came out, I have over 150 hours, and I still haven't beat it. And still I'm discovering cool new areas, items, and lore. The amount of times I've gotten to a new area and just gone "what in the actual fuck" is too many to count, it's just…

I'm not a FromSoft aficionado and have only played Bloodborne for about 10 hours, which I enjoyed but probably would never finish. I've followed all the Souls games and now ER, have watched many hours of gameplay, and I honestly don't get the appeal and cult-like following around them. I can appreciate the detailed environments and characters, the deep lore, RPG aspects, and probably the best combat mechanics and hit…

The combat IS the driving force behind their games, even in Elden Ring. It doesn’t need all that other stuff to make the game more “rich”. It focuses everything into the combat, both in terms of the actions the player can take and the sheer variety of encounters.

If you don’t enjoy the combat, then yeah, you’re not going to see the appeal. I would argue it takes quite a few hours (maybe 30?) of playing soulslike games to get to the point where the combat becomes more satisfying, as certain actions start to flow and feel more natural.

With all that said, there is a more to Elden Ring than just the combat. There are quests, actually quite a lot, with a bunch of variety, and many of them are quite long and epic. There’s upgrading weapons and upgrading summons, and all the complexity that comes along with that, such as ashes of war etc. Then there’s the secrets. So. Many. Secrets.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#39

Post by Spivakov »

"When it comes to open-world games, I’ve never liked the “fakeness” of the open-world and why games like Skyrim, Horizon, the Assassin’s Creeds, and so on, didn’t interest me."

Skyrim and AC are milestones in open-world design around 2010. Sort of mind-blowing if you played them at their initial release. Horizon, though not being top, also has its own merit. I wonder how can an author comment on open world design when literally any other open-world game does not interest him.

I could just be angry because he acclaimed ER without being fair about game design as a progress over time.

Re: Elden Ring Succeeds by Ignoring 20 Years of Open-World Design

#40

Post by andrewingram »

throwntoday wrote: post #31
libertine wrote: post #2

I hate to be that guy, but it's not fair to dismiss one of the best open world games released in the last 20 years, and which I believe inspired many things on Elden Ring - I'm talking about Breath of the Wild. Just like how you're introduced to the world is literally how BoTW introduces you to it's own world (could it be a homage?), or something as simple as picking up consumables with a simple press of a button wit…

Oof, BotW was absolute trash. It was the epitome of bad open-world design. You have an absolutely massive map with nothing to do. The story is fragmented into just four dungeon/town areas and some memories scattered around the map. There are like two villages otherwise with still basically nothing to do in them. Exploration is not rewarded, weapons break for no reason (doesn't add difficulty or fun, it's just frustra…

I’m over 100 hours in, and it’s probably the most sticky gaming experience I’ve had in years. I’ve played most of the recent AAA open world games (Horizon Forbidden West, Far Cry 6, AC Valhalla etc), and Elden Ring is the only one that didn’t quickly descend into feeling like a chore.

It’s got a lot of rough edges, but it’s an absolute breath of fresh air; and even my gf says it’s the one she’s enjoyed watching me play the most.

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